Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Ferd]

if no evidence of child rape is found, then a lot of people need to get on board with helping them.

if they find that child rape has occured, then all bets are off.

[AmazingGrace]

I have just finished watching a news report about this case again. They are still saying that as DNA comes in and as they prove that the minors have not become pregnant at the time of being a minor and that there has not been evidence found on that person... they will be returned to their home. The ones under age are being moved already and most have already been placed in different cities in foster care/shelters.. My aunt actually helped to get ready for a group of them to be transfered to a Ft Worth area local...

I am sure they are going to find evidence of rape and if they do not.. I will say I am wrong but my uncle was involved with this exact group for years... way back when before he passed and I know how they work and it is sick and sad but I am betting that they will find more minors raped than not.... Its their way.. sadly enough!

These people are sick and they do NOT deserve to have these children back at all if they are doing these things...

As for how this was handled.. I believe remarkably well considering how Waco turned out... we have far advanced from that... and the area this occured in is not that advanced culturally honest,... Very different atmosphere in that area anywho without this even being thrown in the mix..

As for someones comment about CPS not taking children of druggies and hookers yada yada... Well you havent been to Texas apparently. They are very quick at it here! I know of 2 cases where within 4 days of receiving notification of certain things occuring... CPS contacted and jumped and did their things needed and those children were removed from that situation. They are very quick to act.

Someone very close to us had someone in their family attempt suicide last year... within 4 hrs of them getting the call from their childs school.. CPS was on their doorstep to investigate the situation!!! Texas has had a very bad track record with their CPS issues.. however since revamping them over the last 5 yrs I think they are getting to be one of the better states out there and I will dare to say probably some of the quickest actions of any state I have ever lived in...

At least we have this scenario rather than the one of the mother we lived near in La... who beat her children so bad and even had one that when she would get in trouble the mother would literally chain her to the tree out back like a dog and make her eat out of a dog bowl... and on the edge of the little hwy thru town this could be seen yet the law in that town was "scared" of her husband so they refused to do anything for almost 8 months until a group of parents went and stood in the yard and blocked the hwy and protested until the child was removed!!!!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I think this whole situation was handled in the best way they possibly could given the circumstances.

1. The CPS/Police had NO IDEA what to expect when they went there. Remember, this is an extremely secretive cult. They live behind locked gates, and from what the local townspeople have reported so far, that although they appear to be friendly, they are not very sociable. The police presence was necessary. And BECAUSE of the history of cults they've had to deal with, they were not going to take any chances.

2. The CPS acted on 'good faith' that there really was a minor being abused. At the time they went in, they could not have known the calls were a hoax. They went in to try to find 'Sarah', and if a door is locked, they BETTER break it down to try to find her.

3. I kept hearing there was very little documentation such as birth/marriage/death certificates. Maybe what they were presenting were not acceptable documents. If that's the case, they can't just take their word for it.

The Mrs- I appreciate you taking the other side of the issue...

1. According to one of the head sherrifs (if not the head sheriff); he had visited the ranch numerous times since its inception. Furthermore, he claimed to have an informant there for 4 yrs.

Interestingly enough, it wasn't until about April 6th that the informant happened to mention underage girls having sex with adult men. What a coincidence after 4 years but in time for the court hearing....

2. I have heard that there are no walls. Are you sure there were locked gates?

3. The phone call was traced to Colorado. Why couldn't that have happened first? Because they had been itching for an excuse for a long time. Furthermore, the phone caller spoke of her mom and dad rather than mother and father as is normal language for these sects.

4. It is amazing how inaccuarate reports are. Which is it? Were the members taking welfare? If so; what documents did they produce? Why credible then, but not now? Why no education or arrests then if the minors were coming to welfare office to collect for babies?

[Newman]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Two nights ago it was reported that there are 12-18 pregnant/nursing minors.

And that some have given birth. That's why the number of children has risen from 416.

Why can they accurately report how many children had chicken pox but can't put a number on pregnancies (they have all been tested) and nursing minors?

Sixteen minors have given birth this month? I don't think so. That would certainly get into the news.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Newman

The Mrs- I appreciate you taking the other side of the issue...

1. According to one of the head police (if not the head police); he had visited the ranch numerous times since its inception. Furthermore, he claimed to have an informant there for 4 yrs.

Interestingly enough, it wasn't until about April 6th that the informant happended to mention underage girls having sex with adult men. What a coincidence after 4 years but in time for the court hearing....

2. I have heard that there are no walls. Are you sure there were locked gates?

3. The phone call was traced to Colorado. Why couldn't that have happened first? Because they had been itching for an excuse for a long time. Furthermore, the phone caller spoke of her mom and dad rather than mother and father as is normal language for these sects.

4. It is amazing how inaccuarate reports are. Which is it? Were the members taking welfare? If so; what documents did they produce? Why credible then, but not now? Why no education or arrests then if the minors were coming to welfare office to collect for babies?

All very good questions. Of course we want to see the answers to these.

I could come up with a few, but it would only be speculation on my part. I wish we could have access to the REAL facts. Regardless, I believe they did the right thing at the right time.

This image of the locked gate is used VERY frequently just about every time they show any images of the situation while running the news programs.



I had heard the Sheriff did make it inside as well...but it took a long time. He went out to the gate repeatedly and tried to talk to them. He was treated with silence for a very long time.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Newman

Why can they accurately report how many children had chicken pox but can't put a number on pregnancies (they have all been tested) and nursing minors?

Sixteen minors have given birth this month? I don't think so. That would certainly get into the news.

Is it possible it's not something they want to officially release, and these numbers are coming from unofficial reports/people working close enough to know and see?

[Newman]

Originally Posted by AmazingGrace

I have just finished watching a news report about this case again. They are still saying that as DNA comes in and as they prove that the minors have not become pregnant at the time of being a minor and that there has not been evidence found on that person... they will be returned to their home. The ones under age are being moved already and most have already been placed in different cities in foster care/shelters.. My aunt actually helped to get ready for a group of them to be transfered to a Ft Worth area local...

I am sure they are going to find evidence of rape and if they do not.. I will say I am wrong but my uncle was involved with this exact group for years... way back when before he passed and I know how they work and it is sick and sad but I am betting that they will find more minors raped than not.... Its their way.. sadly enough!

These people are sick and they do NOT deserve to have these children back at all if they are doing these things...

As for how this was handled.. I believe remarkably well considering how Waco turned out... we have far advanced from that... and the area this occured in is not that advanced culturally honest,... Very different atmosphere in that area anywho without this even being thrown in the mix..

As for someones comment about CPS not taking children of druggies and hookers yada yada... Well you havent been to Texas apparently. They are very quick at it here! I know of 2 cases where within 4 days of receiving notification of certain things occuring... CPS contacted and jumped and did their things needed and those children were removed from that situation. They are very quick to act.

1. What has this got to do with most of the children and parents? Why do they have the youngest children now? There have been no allegations of sexual abuse of young children. Where is the immediate danger for most of these children but for not caring for their religous ideas?

2. Even if Texas finds evidence that some parents allowed teenage girls to "wed" that doesn't justify removing and traumatizing hundreds of children; especially given that they were ill-equipped to handle such a thing.

3. As of 2004 it was legal to marry a 14 year old in Texas. As of 2007; Texas had the higest teen pregnancy rate in the nation. In fact, one out of four teenage births was to a minor mother who had already given birth at least one other time. Did they take those children away? I think not.

4. I don't believe this is the same group your uncle knew. One can never step into the same river flow twice. I would also point out that it would be very unfair to judge a typical Apostolic church by snake handlers in the Ozarks.

5. The group prayed instead of taking up arms to defend themselves. The credit for peacefulness under extreme duress should go to the community not Texas.

6. I believe the writers intent about drugs and prostitutes went to the opportunity to get the kids back instead of automatically filing for termination.

Finally, I would ask you to go and view this website....

www.captivefldschildren.com

[The Mrs]

Sis. Newman...I did go to the website first thing before posting anything today.

It is a site built to do one thing...pull on your heartstrings to garner support.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I had heard the Sheriff did make it inside as well...but it took a long time. He went out to the gate repeatedly and tried to talk to them. He was treated with silence for a very long time.

Interesting. I have never seen this before and it certainly represents a particular bias for the news program given all the other images they could have chosen.

I have seen many pictures from up in the air. Not sure where the gate would come in (although probably at the driveway, I would guess).

After hearing about the coincidental and perfectly timed disclosure of the "informant" to the sherrif; I am skeptical of what he has to say.

He has already stated that he has been after them for years.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Sis. Newman...I did go to the website first thing before posting anything today.

It is a site built to do one thing...pull on your heartstrings to garner support.

Wouldn't you do the same? The pictures also contradict the stories of a cult that was not allowed to smile or express emotion.