Leaving The Fold - anyone hear of this?

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you have always seemed to desire to push the "dark night" to it's limits.

It isn't in me to do that. I have always had hope in many things. I think I'm a fairly intelligent woman, but I have always, with that, been naive. I never expect the worst even when it lands on my doorstep.

I can be dashed, but I always have seen light or way of escape. For that very reason, I have always believed and hoped in God.

There have been times when I have prayed, "I am cast down, Jesus. I need you to do something for me. I need you to pick me up." He has always done that with some of the simplest things. That has caused me to have and believe in "simple faith."

I can't disagree with your statement, though I may clarify it a bit. I have always had the desire to push everything to its limits. (Whether it was faith in God, or more recently lack of faith)

This past year I have learned that no matter how frustrating it is for me, chances are that few people are ever going to understand me (which is one of my main driving desires, to be understood). But this is turning out to be a good thing, because it makes me see that there is only one that I can ever trust, to truly understand my motives, how my experiences have shaped me, why I have the doubts and fears that I do, and all the things that are in my mind and heart.

But I am still learning how to quash the desire to explain and defend myself, so you'll have to forgive me when I occasionally slip.

For now, I will simply say, that I am glad that you don't have the same struggles that I do, and that your faith in the Lord has always been strong.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I can't disagree with your statement, though I may clarify it a bit. I have always had the desire to push everything to its limits. (Whether it was faith in God, or more recently lack of faith)

This past year I have learned that no matter how frustrating it is for me, chances are that few people are ever going to understand me (which is one of my main driving desires, to be understood). But this is turning out to be a good thing, because it makes me see that there is only one that I can ever trust, to truly understand my motives, how my experiences have shaped me, why I have the doubts and fears that I do, and all the things that are in my mind and heart.

But I am still learning how to quash the desire to explain and defend myself, so you'll have to forgive me when I occasionally slip.

For now, I will simply say, that I am glad that you don't have the same struggles that I do, and that your faith in the Lord has always been strong.

I don't think you have to quash, explain or defend yourself. Someone will listen to you. It just won't always be me.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I can't disagree with your statement, though I may clarify it a bit. I have always had the desire to push everything to its limits. (Whether it was faith in God, or more recently lack of faith)

This past year I have learned that no matter how frustrating it is for me, chances are that few people are ever going to understand me (which is one of my main driving desires, to be understood). But this is turning out to be a good thing, because it makes me see that there is only one that I can ever trust, to truly understand my motives, how my experiences have shaped me, why I have the doubts and fears that I do, and all the things that are in my mind and heart.

But I am still learning how to quash the desire to explain and defend myself, so you'll have to forgive me when I occasionally slip.

For now, I will simply say, that I am glad that you don't have the same struggles that I do, and that your faith in the Lord has always been strong.

You said that very well. I kept trying to respond and I couldn't do it without sounding snarky. lol I don't mean to be! I just can't fathom not questioning. Everything. I must, I must know the how, the why, the who. God can handle it, I know that. The more I question, WITHOUT any pretense, the more answers I have, the more God responds to me where I am, in my place of need, the way I need Him to. If I come into my questions with my mind already made up, I tend not to hear or see what He's saying. When I can keep my own ideas out of this, what God does is always more amazing than anything I could have come up with.

And Mich, I won't say I understand you, but I've always related to you from the very first post of yours I read. Not a whole lot of people really understand me either. Those who do, or try, I treasure greatly and value their friendship beyond measure.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't think you have to quash, explain or defend yourself. Someone will listen to you. It just won't always be me.

Originally Posted by nahkoe

You said that very well. I kept trying to respond and I couldn't do it without sounding snarky. lol I don't mean to be! I just can't fathom not questioning. Everything. I must, I must know the how, the why, the who. God can handle it, I know that. The more I question, WITHOUT any pretense, the more answers I have, the more God responds to me where I am, in my place of need, the way I need Him to. If I come into my questions with my mind already made up, I tend not to hear or see what He's saying. When I can keep my own ideas out of this, what God does is always more amazing than anything I could have come up with.

And Mich, I won't say I understand you, but I've always related to you from the very first post of yours I read. Not a whole lot of people really understand me either. Those who do, or try, I treasure greatly and value their friendship beyond measure.

Ok, to be fair, that post was not my first attempt I think its very common, when you think you are being misunderstood, to feel defensive. In someone like me, when I am feeling defensive I tend to go on the offensive which usually just makes things so much worse! I guess I am learning the truth behind a soft answer turning away wrath, LOL

To be honest, there are certain people that I honestly feel I never would have survived the last year without! You know some of them from another forum. I think it really helped me that I could say absolutely anything to them, no matter how irreverent or blasphemous or faithless it seemed, and they didn't judge me, and continued to love me. Even Ronzo who always seemed to be the target of the worst of my anger, poor guy (Ronzo, this is for you )

I think what really helped me was that I wouldn't allow myself to pretend. I knew what I was supposed to say. "I can do all things through Christ....all things work together for the good of those who love Him...He will never leave me or forsake me....He is my strength and my shield, a present source of help in times of danger....etc." But the truth was, I didn't believe that any of that was true.

Right now, I am starting to believe that He's maybe not as horrible as I have been thinking that He is, and I actually attended a church service this past weekend (non-denominational). For me, those have been major steps.

[SDG]

Will pray w/ you, MOE. Your heart is a tender one ...

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

Ok, to be fair, that post was not my first attempt I think its very common, when you think you are being misunderstood, to feel defensive. In someone like me, when I am feeling defensive I tend to go on the offensive which usually just makes things so much worse! I guess I am learning the truth behind a soft answer turning away wrath, LOL

To be honest, there are certain people that I honestly feel I never would have survived the last year without! You know some of them from another forum. I think it really helped me that I could say absolutely anything to them, no matter how irreverent or blasphemous or faithless it seemed, and they didn't judge me, and continued to love me. Even Ronzo who always seemed to be the target of the worst of my anger, poor guy (Ronzo, this is for you )

Ron's taken some (lol...ok to be honest, a whole, awful, lot of) grief from me too (and I'm sure I'll send more his way at some point). He's got a big heart and is definitely one who I feel blessed to call a friend.

I know which people you're speaking of. I haven't said so much openly there, but knowing it to be a safe place has helped me a lot. I know I *can* question anything, say anything, and that won't change how those people care about me.

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I think what really helped me was that I wouldn't allow myself to pretend. I knew what I was supposed to say. "I can do all things through Christ....all things work together for the good of those who love Him...He will never leave me or forsake me....He is my strength and my shield, a present source of help in times of danger....etc." But the truth was, I didn't believe that any of that was true.

Right now, I am starting to believe that He's maybe not as horrible as I have been thinking that He is, and I actually attended a church service this past weekend (non-denominational). For me, those have been major steps.

I don't get pretending either. lol If I don't believe it, I don't believe it. Prove it to me. God will do that, He simply will. I can't even begin to describe what He's done in my life lately, it's completely blown my mind. It seems impossible, but I keep looking at what is, what's happened. I can't make reality go away, He really has done things that no one else could have. Things have happened, and continue to, that I can in no way deny are God. This has done a lot to change my view of who God is. He's not in any way who I thought He was.

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

Ok, to be fair, that post was not my first attempt I think its very common, when you think you are being misunderstood, to feel defensive. In someone like me, when I am feeling defensive I tend to go on the offensive which usually just makes things so much worse! I guess I am learning the truth behind a soft answer turning away wrath, LOL

To be honest, there are certain people that I honestly feel I never would have survived the last year without! You know some of them from another forum. I think it really helped me that I could say absolutely anything to them, no matter how irreverent or blasphemous or faithless it seemed, and they didn't judge me, and continued to love me. Even Ronzo who always seemed to be the target of the worst of my anger, poor guy (Ronzo, this is for you )

I think what really helped me was that I wouldn't allow myself to pretend. I knew what I was supposed to say. "I can do all things through Christ....all things work together for the good of those who love Him...He will never leave me or forsake me....He is my strength and my shield, a present source of help in times of danger....etc." But the truth was, I didn't believe that any of that was true.

Right now, I am starting to believe that He's maybe not as horrible as I have been thinking that He is, and I actually attended a church service this past weekend (non-denominational). For me, those have been major steps.

I have not cried over any post. Until this one. I am praying that you find the right path for YOU! Don't allow others to dictate your life. Too many of us do and have regretted it. Thank you for your truthful and eye opening post.

[missdkendall]

Originally Posted by krawlinson

I have not cried over any post. Until this one. I am praying that you find the right path for YOU! Don't allow others to dictate your life. Too many of us do and have regretted it. Thank you for your truthful and eye opening post.

I couldn't agree more.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Ron's taken some (lol...ok to be honest, a whole, awful, lot of) grief from me too (and I'm sure I'll send more his way at some point). He's got a big heart and is definitely one who I feel blessed to call a friend.

I know which people you're speaking of. I haven't said so much openly there, but knowing it to be a safe place has helped me a lot. I know I *can* question anything, say anything, and that won't change how those people care about me.



I don't get pretending either. lol If I don't believe it, I don't believe it. Prove it to me. God will do that, He simply will. I can't even begin to describe what He's done in my life lately, it's completely blown my mind. It seems impossible, but I keep looking at what is, what's happened. I can't make reality go away, He really has done things that no one else could have. Things have happened, and continue to, that I can in no way deny are God. This has done a lot to change my view of who God is. He's not in any way who I thought He was.

I think this past year my hurt and my anger blinded me to many things. So not only has my view of God changed, but I am more clearly "remembering" things in my past. And I think I am a little more able to see what was God, and what was simply flawed humans trying to speak for God.

It's really hard, because It's like God and I got off on the wrong foot at the very beginning. My concept of him was so skewed and twisted, well really, it's no wonder that my faith was shaky.

Looking back, the beginning of it all was New Years day, 2007, when I sat on my bed crying and said "God, either you every bad thing that I think you are, in which case I want nothing more to do with you or I have no clue who you really are." And then I proceeded to throw out everything I had ever thought or believed, retaining only a belief that God existed.

Even though it worked for me, I don't know that I would recommend that method, LOL

Originally Posted by krawlinson

I have not cried over any post. Until this one. I am praying that you find the right path for YOU! Don't allow others to dictate your life. Too many of us do and have regretted it. Thank you for your truthful and eye opening post.

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. I really appreciate it.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by krawlinson

I have not cried over any post. Until this one. I am praying that you find the right path for YOU! Don't allow others to dictate your life. Too many of us do and have regretted it. Thank you for your truthful and eye opening post.

That's been my major beef with some religions. They dictate what you must believe. There may be a little carrot, but there's always a big stick: to stay out of hell, you must believe a, b, and c (and act on it, of course). And the really funny thing is that different religions dictate completely different requirements, each with a justification. You can prove almost anything you want to, with the Bible. Who got it right?

Yeah, I know. Apostolics, of course!