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10-27-2007, 06:26 PM
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Smiles everyone...Smiles!!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
B-b-but... he turned the water into wine at a wedding when there arose a shortage... We had a shortage at my own wedding, I believed, but no wine.
What gives???
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Is there a promise that Jesus will turn your water into wine?? NO!
Is there a promise that Jesus will heal you sickness?? MANY OF THEM!!!
Apples and watermelons.
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10-27-2007, 06:31 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
Bro Phil,
I disagree with you. ALL understanding of God must begin with His Word. This is all we have to go on. And if his Word proclaims that he bore our sicknesses on Calvary (as Isa 53 states), would he contradict His Word because of his sovereignty.
This "God is Sovereign and can do as he pleases" mentality has always baffled me. Does the fact that God is sovereign mean that he is willing to oppose His own Word??
The problem as I see it is that some do not see the promise of healing available to all, but only to a selected group. It negates a real prayer of faith from being prayed when one believes this, because the one praying cannot be certain that it is Gods will for healing to occur. |
The problem St Matt, is our understanding of his Word is less than perfect (you do agree, right?)
How about acknowledging the sovereignty of God's Word while confessing our comprehension is something less than perfect??
Even in my own life, I have changed views on some things I once thought were clearly stated in scripture.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-27-2007, 06:36 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
Is there a promise that Jesus will turn your water into wine?? NO!
Is there a promise that Jesus will heal you sickness?? MANY OF THEM!!!
Apples and watermelons.
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It was TIC.
I was responding to Mizpeh's comment that, "if he healed all that came to him when walking on the earth, he does the same now"
I do believe this to be false teaching - unless he is making reference to the healing of our bodies after death in the resurection.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-27-2007, 06:44 PM
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Smiles everyone...Smiles!!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
The problem St Matt, is our understanding of his Word is less than perfect (you do agree, right?)
How about acknowledging the sovereignty of God's Word while confessing our comprehension is something less than perfect??
Even in my own life, I have changed views on some things I once thought were clearly stated in scripture.
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Given this type of view, even the gospel message would have to be held in question. But Gods Word is forever settled. It is complete.
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10-27-2007, 06:48 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
The problem St Matt, is our understanding of his Word is less than perfect (you do agree, right?)
How about acknowledging the sovereignty of God's Word while confessing our comprehension is something less than perfect??
Even in my own life, I have changed views on some things I once thought were clearly stated in scripture.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
Given this type of view, even the gospel message would have to be held in question. But Gods Word is forever settled. It is complete.
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OK then you DON'T agree???
I really need to meet you.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-27-2007, 06:49 PM
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Smiles everyone...Smiles!!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
It was TIC.
I was responding to Mizpeh's comment that, "if he healed all that came to him when walking on the earth, he does the same now"
I do believe this to be false teaching - unless he is making reference to the healing of our bodies after death in the resurection.
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Bro, Scripture PLAINLY states that Jesus bore our sicknesses on the cross. Now if you want to make this a healing after death in the resurrection, then I believe that you would have to deny that it is available prior to that occurrence. And if you believe that it is available to even one, then it is available to everyone, because we know that God is not a respecter of persons.
I also showed that the fulfillment to Isaiah 53 where it states that Jesus bore our sicknesses was natural healing this side of death according to the sovereign Word in Matt 9
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10-27-2007, 06:51 PM
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Smiles everyone...Smiles!!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
OK then you DON'T agree???
I really need to meet you.
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and I again say if that is your view, then we cannot be sure of ANY doctrine, cause we just MIGHT be understanding it wrong. DON"T YOU AGREE???
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10-27-2007, 07:02 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
and I again say if that is your view, then we cannot be sure of ANY doctrine, cause we just MIGHT be understanding it wrong. DON"T YOU AGREE???
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Very cautiously I will answer "Yes".
Everything we believe concerning God and His Holy Word, is at least somewhat dependant on our proper understanding, interpretation, and application of scripture.
This is not to discredit the crucial element of faith, but simply an acknowledgement that how we read, affects what, and in whom we believe.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-27-2007, 07:05 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmatthew
Bro, Scripture PLAINLY states that Jesus bore our sicknesses on the cross. Now if you want to make this a healing after death in the resurrection, then I believe that you would have to deny that it is available prior to that occurrence. And if you believe that it is available to even one, then it is available to everyone, because we know that God is not a respecter of persons.
I also showed that the fulfillment to Isaiah 53 where it states that Jesus bore our sicknesses was natural healing this side of death according to the sovereign Word in Matt 9 |
Question: If it was indeed "the fulfillment" why do we try so hard to rationalize why/why not, it is yet to come in this same way?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-27-2007, 07:09 PM
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Smiles everyone...Smiles!!
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|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 2,399
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Very cautiously I will answer "Yes".
Everything we believe concerning God and His Holy Word, is at least somewhat dependant on our proper understanding, interpretation, and application of scripture.
This is not to discredit the crucial element of faith, but simply an acknowledgement that how we read, affects what, and in whom we believe.
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We disagree here, as I believe that God reveals his Word to those that seek understanding by opening their spiritual understanding. Does that mean that every Bozo that comes through has a Word from God? Probably not. But if a man can come in and point to scripture s that point plainly to a specific doctrine, I believe it is worth looking into.
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