Dear Kansas Preacher,

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brett Prince

Prax, respectfully, I think you miss the point.

Men have placed great sweat, tears, blood, energy, money, etc., into camp grounds, Bible colleges, church buildings, all the time believing that they were giving to something they believed in ardently. Now, they feel that all their work has been hijacked, or that their father's and mother's work, or their old pastor's work, has been hijacked, and now all of these assets to the Kingdom is being handed over to those who don't hold to the values that they hold to. It feels like theft. It makes them feel violated. It is NOT the org. It is what they have put INTO the org, and cannot have if they leave. If they want to keep the use of these things, they have to be willing to be part of something that believes differently than they--that has a lifestyle different from their own. They see the path now towards even more things that they don't believe in. It hurts them deeply.

These are good men. These are men who have preached a message that you have received, and likely would have never found had they not. These are men who had little chance for education but wanted better for the next generation of preachers. Some of these know what it is like to sleep in a tent, set on a rough hewn pew, and sweat with air conditioning, but through their labor of love--in their olden age they were going to enjoy something better, and their children, both physically and spiritually would do the same.

But, I am almost certain that these men will walk away, heads held high, a tear in their eye, and with a heavy heart--but they will not attempt to destroy that which they have loved. I believe they will go in peace. And, may the Lord richly bless them. They are MEN.

Sorry to wax so passionate, but this is a day that shall be long remembered. I choose to stay, but my hat is off to those who helped make us what we are, but who will no longer be among us. I am saddened, but I am encouraged by their strength and conviction.

I understood that. I think it's absurd. They aren't the only ones that put time and effort into an organization. It seems childish to me that if one group does not get it's way it's gonna be insulted and walk....the liberals could and have done the same thing. This resolution does NOT force them to accept the TV.

That is what is wrong with the UPC. It has become what was supposed to be a United effort to spread the Apostolic message around the world to a concerted effort to control the thoughts of all UPCers.

We should get rid of the Affirmation statement to begin with. We should return to our roots when we were still in the AOG and were full on against creeds with unbiblical language or terms and make only the bible our standard. We never should have attempted to leash or control our churches from using all possible means of evangelism and growth.

This org should have been bigger, but instead of being unleashed to focus on evangelism it has been mired in rules and legalism and political fighting for control

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You say this on the internet, well known for breaking up homes, even those of Apostolics.

Oh, the irony!

Tell me about it....

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Thad

unlike the libs and mods here ,I am one who does not believe that TV ministry is the end all the great revival. i still believe it comes from old fashioned fasting, hunbling, shutting in, etc. something we are ALL lacking including myself. BUT, I'm also for freedom in the local assembly. If a pastor wants to try that out, let 'em!!! how is that going to effect my life??? why do i need to have a cardiac arrest over it?? only 5% will even be able to afford to advertise~!! that means 95% wont be . some folk act like everyone is suddenly going to out and start looking like jezebel !

With the many reports of abuse of the letter of the TV issue being told here, this is the final straw. The TV appearances and the distribution of modern TV programs for discussion after viewing. The use of "Andy Griffith" for mid week Bible Study. The rampant embracing of Trinitarianism by those on the fringes still teaching in many of our churches now advocating that "advertising is needed"

At some point, the leftward lean is too severe for some to ignore.

I do agree with Thad here that many churches embrace every program instead of embracing prayer. How many churches 3-5 yrs ago dissolved midweek services and now they disband all over our fellowship HFG as another fad. (one that was called "Oikos" 25 yrs ago and did not go far then either). So we have now this "program for Evangelism...."

At least KP has the integrity to state his line is drawn. And to keep from a bad attitude is indeed noble and something we all need.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Kansas Preacher you did NOT leave them they left you.

Oh brother....typical. Honestly I would not want anyone go to, but with attitudes like that, the victim card playing and finger pointing, it might be better if some did go. The ONLY reason we can't get along and be in Unity is because the individual ministers and their congregations by and large just don't want to. This org was born of two different groups with differnent views on salvation. Somewhere along the way some group tried to hijack it and make it a my way or the hiway movement. But now that it seems that is no longer going to be accepted by and large they decide to take their toys and go?

Good grief. "Not contending for our differences to the disunity of the body" became "conform to our way....no other views welcome"

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by mjmac

Are there stats on the effectiveness of TV advertising? I know of one church in my city that has ads on the TV. Not sure it does anything more than a little publicity.

It's still one on one that works. You have to make friends. Touch real people.

I don't see why anyone would leave the UPCI over this. I could think of many other things, but not this.

I believe I read a George Barna report that less than 1% of people have come to church/Christ from TV of any kind.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by bishoph

I believe I read a George Barna report that less than 1% of people have come to church/Christ from TV of any kind.

I wonder what the name recognition of the United Pentecostal Church is?

I am gonna venture less than 10%.

[bishoph]

So many have stated their opinion about what the passing of this resolution means or does not mean to the future of the UPCI. However, as one who actually lived out a similar situation in an Apostolic organization that has 50+ years of foundation I can tell you that some of the predictions pale in comparison to what will really happen.

I personally sat on the National board of this organization and resisted the tide of compromise until, like the UPCI's reversal of its own principle, the org made a decision to change small things that resulted in monumental change. (Remember John warns us that it is a very small rudder that turns the ship.)

Today just 5 years later the organization which was nearly as conservative as the UPCI (harder in some areas) bears no resemblance of a sanctified body. Tragically the worst part is that a growing number of those who remain no longer believe nor teach the Biblical plan of salvation.

This is not what I have dreamed up, this is what I have watched happen in 5 short years. I think what we are forgetting is that when something has made its way into the foundation of any structure, to remove it places the structure as a whole in jeopardy. JMHO

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by bishoph

So many have stated their opinion about what the passing of this resolution means or does not mean to the future of the UPCI. However, as one who actually lived out a similar situation in an Apostolic organization that has 50+ years of foundation I can tell you that some of the predictions pale in comparison to what will really happen.

I personally sat on the National board of this organization and resisted the tide of compromise until, like the UPCI's reversal of its own principle, the org made a decision to change small things that resulted in monumental change. (Remember John warns us that it is a very small rudder that turns the ship.)

Today just 5 years later the organization which was nearly as conservative as the UPCI (harder in some areas) bears no resemblance of a sanctified body. Tragically the worst part is that a growing number of those who remain no longer believe nor teach the Biblical plan of salvation.

This is not what I have dreamed up, this is what I have watched happen in 5 short years. I think what we are forgetting is that when something has made its way into the foundation of any structure, to remove it places the structure as a whole in jeopardy. JMHO

So sad,


but true.

[CC1]

Kansas Preacher,

Regardless of where you land (GIB or in the new conservative org. that will spring up with the help of the Western District ultra cons) I still plan on looking you up to say hello if I ever make it back to Kansas.

Coonskinner speaks very highly of you.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by bishoph

So many have stated their opinion about what the passing of this resolution means or does not mean to the future of the UPCI. However, as one who actually lived out a similar situation in an Apostolic organization that has 50+ years of foundation I can tell you that some of the predictions pale in comparison to what will really happen.

I personally sat on the National board of this organization and resisted the tide of compromise until, like the UPCI's reversal of its own principle, the org made a decision to change small things that resulted in monumental change. (Remember John warns us that it is a very small rudder that turns the ship.)

Today just 5 years later the organization which was nearly as conservative as the UPCI (harder in some areas) bears no resemblance of a sanctified body. Tragically the worst part is that a growing number of those who remain no longer believe nor teach the Biblical plan of salvation.

This is not what I have dreamed up, this is what I have watched happen in 5 short years. I think what we are forgetting is that when something has made its way into the foundation of any structure, to remove it places the structure as a whole in jeopardy. JMHO

If it is change you fear then run to the AMF!!!! Of course even the AMF has it's liberals like Steve Epley who listen to Fox News on satellite radio!!!!!!