Fifty years ago...

[FRINGE_NUTTER]

Originally Posted by marthaolivia

I'm actually not a madam either.. (smiles)

Are you Mart Haolivia?

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Sam

This is from “What Oneness Pentecostals Believe and Teach,” third edition by B.E. Echols, Marshall, TX, 1956 pages 10-12

A few things the Oneness Pentecostal People believe and teach that a Christian should NOT do or partake of are: drink beer, wine, whiskey ... use snuff or tobacco ...attend or take part in basketball, football and baseball games, picture shows, boxing and wrestling matches, visit pool halls, play golf or cards, dance, go swimming where both sexes are present ... telling jokes ... reading funny papers, novels ... listening in on comic radio programs and ungodly TV broadcasts. All such things rob a Christian of his spirituality and will eventually drown his soul in perdition.

Christian women should not bob their hair (1 Cor 11:5-11) get permanents (1 Tim 2:9, 10), wear jewelry as ornaments (this applies to men also); wear socks, use rouge and lip-stick or paint their eyebrows, eyelashes or fingernails; neither should they wear low neck, short skirt and short-sleeve dresses --especially in public ... abstain from all lustful and pagan customs of the ungodly, such as necking, kissing, spooning and keeping late hours at night.

I have this booklet, copyright 1940. And even though my dad owned this and had read it....it was not the norm as I grew up. And since my mom and dad are both gone I'm not able to ask any ?'s.

Originally Posted by MrsBOOMM

My question is,, since the world has lowered the bar so much, why is it ok for the church to? We are in this world but not of the world. I don't see the culture changing so much that it would require the church to start doing any of these things.

I still don't.....

watch or own a tv
go to the movies
wear slacks
dress out for gym at school
dance except in church
go to ball games
"arch" my eyebrows
cut or trim my hair
wear any make-up
go swimming in anything other than your everyday clothes
to listen to certain radio stations except for gospel radio and talk radio once in a while for news.

AMEN! Same here Sister!

[Neck]

Originally Posted by marthaolivia

If I remember correctly, fifty years ago, (and yes I was around then!) at least in UPC & ALJC, it was a sin to watch or own a tv, to go to the movies, for women to wear slacks, to dress out for gym at school, to dance, to go to ball games, to "arch" your eyebrows, for women to cut or trim their hair, to wear open toed shoes, to wear any make-up (except for Vaseline), to go swimming in anything other than your everyday clothes, to listen to certain radio stations and there are probably some more deadly sins that I forgot to mention.
My question is.."Did God change His mind about these things through the years or were they man-made from the beginning?"

They were not sins in the first place. The men were trying to keep a judicial control over the flocks.

My dad traveled in the ranks of the best in the UPC.

I know in the early 1970's many of the men had TV's and did the other things you mentioned.

At the end of the day who cares....

It the internet was around they would have preached against that as well.

They ever preached against Credit cards back then.

Until ministries in the 1990's started collecting funds over the internet via credit cards for donations...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by commonsense

I was raised in a UPC home and UPC church. I took my first steps at GC 1949.

This is repetitious but I feel it’s necessary to establish the beliefs in our home.. My dad experienced Pentecost in 1931 ala Acts 2:38 in MN. My mother came to the truth in 1934, rcv’d the HG, and was baptized in 1935 in WI; ** they met in 1946. The UPC was new but their walk with God was not!!

In our household the Church was always the #1 priority. That being said….my hair was cut; after school I took off my dress (remember all the little girls wore dresses to school in the 50’s!) and put on play clothes,…slacks; from 3rd gr on we had to wear gym suits for gym class. Royal blue, snapped, one piece shorts sets…like a jumpsuit….they were not cute or fashionable even then. I still have my JR HI gymsuit.(that’s a scary thought) Our house had a TV and radio. My father was the biggest sports fan you ever saw. He loved to watch or listen to any sport …but was a HUGE fan of the Vikings and TWINS.

Make up and dancing were definite taboos…but my mother did not think it necessary for me to be excused from the square dancing segment we had in 6th grade. In general my mother and father loved God, loved the church, their pastor etc….but they both possessed that rare quality called commonsense. I don’t thing it even occurred to them to forbid some of the current legalistic rulings.
I don’t recall anything on eyebrows; never heard anything about open toed shoes; it rarely got warm enough to go swimming, but on a few occasions I did go---in a swimsuit. The summers I was 8 & 9 I even went to a regular secular camp. This is where I first took swimming lessons and played ping pong.
I was in Brownies and Girl Scouts.
In essence none of these things were issues…not preached from the pulpit. And we had good services, great revivals and the power of God fell on us all.


This is off topic but when in her 70’s someone asked my mother about a particular legalistic direction from the pulpit and she looked surprised, as far as she was concerned, it didn’t apply to her (in that she didn’t do or go to the forbidden anyway).
She did tell us that in Chicago in the 30’s where she attended church…amusement parks, bowling, roller skating etc were all preached against as being worldly, so when she walked to catch the streetcar she crossed the street rather than walk near a popular amusement park….
She didn’t keep us from going to the church roller skating outing; we also had hay rides, sleigh rides etc, I went to these with church youth groups as well as with friends from school.

In JR HI I became aware that there were churches that did preach more strongly…ie hair had to be worn up, required to wear seamed hose (so they knew you hadn’t gone with bare legs…what would those old timers think if they saw the average church today? )) Anyway we knew there were stricter churches out there somewhere, but it wasn’t a problem for us in the “north”.

So while there were standards in our church << it was not the same as is taught today as requirements for living for God.

Sounds like your parents were balanced and had good commonsense. And that they knew that God does not have a problem with Christians having fun. Now that is novel thought. If some of the things OP accuse God of requiring weren't so stupid, the lost just might be interested in coming to know Him. jmho

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by marthaolivia

I know God doesn't change but did He tell most of the early ministers that they should lay down those rules back then & tell them something different a few years later? I am still trying to figure all this out in my mind.

Originally Posted by MrsBOOMM

There is a lot to say about obeying those that have the rule over you. As long as your Pastor is correct on the Salvation Doctrine, I don't see the harm in being obedient to what he set up for the church. Even if he is wanting more from you than is required by the Word Of God, what is the harm if we make it to heaven? Isn't that the goal?

I don't want to sound disrespectful to anyone who lives the standards - that's up to you. I used to as well. I was taught for years and years that even if I didn't believe the standards or understand the standards, I was still better off obeying them than not. I was told over and over, "If you get to heaven and find out that it would have been ok all along for you to cut your hair, what have you lost? but if it's not ok for you to cut your hair and you die and find it out then, then you've lost it all".

I bought that for a long time. And then one day, God started dealing with ME. He showed me that if I was obeying the rules of the church because I felt that that is what it would take in order to get into heaven, then I was wrong. Dead wrong. I would never get into heaven because of obedience to rules. I couldn't pay the price for my own salvation. JESUS was the only one who could pay that price and He had already done it. And for me to think that what I could do was more important than what He had already done was a real slap in the face of my God - the one who had paid the ultimate sacrifice. NOTHING that I can do will get me into heaven. NOTHING!!! Jesus already made the provision for that.

Now having said that - I will say this. IF you live the life of standards because you honestly believe that it pleases God and you just want to make Him happy (much like a wife dresses up and looks good for her husband just because she loves him and wants to please him), then that's good and honorable. IF you are living standards because you are scared that if you don't, God won't let you inside the gates of heaven, then you need to re-examine your thinking.

[Sherri]

I was born fifty years ago and most of these things were not considered sin in my UPC church. The women cut their hair, we swam at the public pool, we bowled, we went to ballgames, we wore pants and shorts, etc. etc. The only thing on here that we didn't do, I guess, was go to movies and dances. So I suppose it all depends on what part of the country you were from. In my opinion, UPC got stricter and stricter through the years.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I was born fifty years ago and most of these things were not considered sin in my UPC church. The women cut their hair, we swam at the public pool, we bowled, we went to ballgames, we wore pants and shorts, etc. etc. The only thing on here that we didn't do, I guess, was go to movies and dances. So I suppose it all depends on what part of the country you were from. In my opinion, UPC got stricter and stricter through the years.

You are right...but most don't know that.

How was the trip?

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

You are right...but most don't know that.

How was the trip?

AWESOME!!! I am still kind of in withdrawals.....I loved it there!

BTW, Ashley is moving October 8th or 9th, I think.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Sherri

AWESOME!!! I am still kind of in withdrawals.....I loved it there!

BTW, Ashley is moving October 8th or 9th, I think.

Make sure she knows if she needs anything we are here for her.

And lets make sure we all get together when you guys come to town!