The Death Penalty

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

That is actually my current question.

I have been for the death penalty in the past but I am increasingly having trouble reconciling that thought with the NT message.

I have no scriptures to offer in answer to your question. I share your question.

I think that using deadly force as self defense to be against the NT teachings so I would be also against having the state or government kill anyone for me. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, so if that were the case it would be up to God to exact judgement. God used Gentile armies to bring judgement against His enemies, so would you say that God uses a non-Christian group to carry out His judgements? The Jews used political pull to cause Pontius Pilate to put to death Jesus after Pontius Pilate was convinced that Jesus was innocent. Death penalty can also be used to kill the innocent when used by a corrupt system.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

God used Gentile armies to bring judgement against His enemies, so would you say that God uses a non-Christian group to carry out His judgements?

I think when death penalties are carried out by governments that these are the judgments of man upon man for a man's wrongs.

God's judgments upon us are eternal ones.

A murderer could find forgiveness and turn his life over to God and escape God's judgment even if man continued with his judgment and executed the individual.

The repentant thief demonstrated this to us on some level.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I have a hard time believing God would be for murder.

I also think it is hypocrisy to say we are pro-life and for the death penalty.

Apples and oranges here my friend.

Those that receive the death penalty knowing committed a crime worthy of that sentence.

Unborn children who are aborted are innocent of a crime and should not be murdered.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I think that using deadly force as self defense to be against the NT teachings so I would be also against having the state or government kill anyone for me. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, so if that were the case it would be up to God to exact judgement. God used Gentile armies to bring judgement against His enemies, so would you say that God uses a non-Christian group to carry out His judgements? The Jews used political pull to cause Pontius Pilate to put to death Jesus after Pontius Pilate was convinced that Jesus was innocent. Death penalty can also be used to kill the innocent when used by a corrupt system.

Paul plainly states that God sets up Rulers as revengers to execute judgement on those that are evil. Was Paul going contradicting God?

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Apples and oranges here my friend.

Those that receive the death penalty knowing committed a crime worthy of that sentence.

Unborn children who are aborted are innocent of a crime and should not be murdered.

Who are we to decide if someone deserves to die? Do you even know how many completely innocent people have been put to death? What happens then?

If the justice system wrongly convicts and executes someone, it is nothing short of murder.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Paul plainly states that God sets up Rulers as revengers to execute judgement on those that are evil. Was Paul going contradicting God?

I think the church is different than civil government. Roman government was nothing close to a democracy. The church was powerless to halt any execution, and in fact willingly laid their own lives on the line because of their beliefs.

Was the Roman government God-ordained? Was Paul, aka Saul, justified in his evil treatment of Christians? Were the Christians worthy of death simply because an evil government chose to execute them?

Nowhere in the NT does the church assert a right to kill those who are evil. No, the church chose a different method of dealing with the wicked - they converted them.

Maybe instead of trying to enforce morality through legislation, we should actually live godly, mercifully, and be witnesses to the godless.

Killing people seals their eternal damnation.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Paul plainly states that God sets up Rulers as revengers to execute judgement on those that are evil. Was Paul going contradicting God?

Explain what you mean please. i don't clearly see the point that you are making with this post.

The Bible says in Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

You recall the scriptures (as far as I can tell from your post) that reside in the very next chapter that say...

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

You then ask if Paul was contradicting God...

Could you explain the contradiction you see?

I assume this contradiction is with someones interpretation etc... not trying to be problematic... I just currently do not see clearly what you are saying.

Thanks.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I think the church is different than civil government. Roman government was nothing close to a democracy. The church was powerless to halt any execution, and in fact willingly laid their own lives on the line because of their beliefs.

Was the Roman government God-ordained? Was Paul, aka Saul, justified in his evil treatment of Christians? Were the Christians worthy of death simply because an evil government chose to execute them?

Nowhere in the NT does the church assert a right to kill those who are evil. No, the church chose a different method of dealing with the wicked - they converted them.

Maybe instead of trying to enforce morality through legislation, we should actually live godly, mercifully, and be witnesses to the godless.

Killing people seals their eternal damnation.

Great post... I especially agree with the bolded portion.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Who are we to decide if someone deserves to die? Do you even know how many completely innocent people have been put to death? What happens then?

If the justice system wrongly convicts and executes someone, it is nothing short of murder.

Don't go bleeding heart liberal on me.......

Yes I'm sure that there are those that are convicted unjustly, just as many more who were not convicted but were guilty as sin.

Our justice system is far from perfect, but it does strive to be just. No one is supposed to be convicted in a death penalty case where there is reasonable doubt.

Still Romans 13 seems to give clear precedents on the use of the sword by governments.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Don't go bleeding heart liberal on me.......

Yes I'm sure that there are those that are convicted unjustly, just as many more who were not convicted but were guilty as sin.

Our justice system is far from perfect, but it does strive to be just. No one is supposed to be convicted in a death penalty case where there is reasonable doubt.

Still Romans 13 seems to give clear precedents on the use of the sword by governments.

You are waffling here, please answer the question.

If we wrongfully execute someone is it murder?