The Persecution of Women in the Church

[StillStanding]

Why should we single out women? I've been persecuted!!! I've been made to listen to some pretty bad music and singing over the years!

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Bump again, please.

How did the [ostng of that Scripture support your thesis?

Somebody was saying Eve wasn't responsible...my point was she was responsible in her sin.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Yeah, I've been told that by others before. Maybe you're one of them I don't know.

Here's the deal. I've been brought up in Oneness Pentecost (UPC) and was in ministry for 25 years in it. Been pastoring for 33 years. Traveled all over the USA and Canada. Talked to hundreds of pastors, missionaries, evangelists and saints. Pastored a number of churches.

Haven't seen or heard tell of this persecution of women that you talk about. I guess I don't think the "denial" or "living under a rock" applies.

Felicity- Weren't you at a conference or banquet or some such thing where it was suggested that a woman might not have been raped if she hadn't cut her hair?

Aren't you aware of women who feel called to preach but are not respected by all as a man would be?

And haven't you said many, many times that you would not respect nor want a woman in leadership over men?

Is it possible that this might be a fall out from the early church fathers who greatly influenced the direction of the Catholic Church and Christian thought for centuries?

[Dora]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Yeah, I've been told that by others before. Maybe you're one of them I don't know.

Here's the deal. I've been brought up in Oneness Pentecost (UPC) and was in ministry for 25 years in it. Been pastoring for 33 years. Traveled all over the USA and Canada. Talked to hundreds of pastors, missionaries, evangelists and saints. Pastored a number of churches.

Haven't seen or heard tell of this persecution of women that you talk about. I guess I don't think the "denial" or "living under a rock" applies.

Women who are cutting their hair and wearing make-up and wearing apparel pertaining to a man i.e. pantaloons, gauchos, split skirts, capris, bermuda shorts, etc., wearing jewelry are liberated,. No oppression there.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Dora

Women cutting their hair and wearing make-up and wearing apparel pertaining to a man i.e. pantaloons, gauchos, split skirts, capris, bermuda shorts, etc., wearing jewelry are liberated. No oppression there.

EXACTLY!!! Thank you Dora!

Originally Posted by Newman

CH-

1. The early church fathers (not to be confused with the early church leaders who walked with Christ and laid the foundation for the church) were indeed heavily influenced by Helenistic thought. Greek philophers viewed woman with great disdain; as a lesser human and/or a great distraction.

2. However as an aside, I would note that Augustine was raised by a godly mother. He wrote of her “As an infant I had drunk in the name of [Christ] my Savior...along with my mother’s milk. I had cherished that name piously, and treasured it always in the depths of my heart. Hence no masterpiece in which that name failed to appear; however learned, polished, and truthful it might be, could bear me away entirely.”

Notwithstanding, he became a huge playboy and thus viewed women as temptations that he could not resist and pursued other philosophies. However, Christ won out in the long run and so he wrote that these things could not bear him away entirely (from the love of Christ he learned from his mother).

3. I haven't really ever considered before if its possible to be a great man without a great mother or grandmother behind him (although it would obviously be easier). I wonder what history shows us?

Watch out! I expect Chauncellor will have something to say on this thread!

Thanks for serious dialogue. We understand biblically women play a huge part in a child's upbringing. Moses' mother. Mary the mother of Jesus, etc. With regard to Augustine, you state he returned to Christ from Godly influence of his mother. I'm not blaming women for the plight of humanity, I'm merely suggesting the oppression of women is a conspiracy from hell to destroy humanity.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Dora

Women cutting their hair and wearing make-up and wearing apparel pertaining to a man i.e. pantaloons, gauchos, split skirts, capris, bermuda shorts, etc., wearing jewelry are liberated. No oppression there.

I get it...standards=persecution.

Gotcha.

I suspected that might be it.

Originally Posted by Newman

Felicity- Weren't you at a conference or banquet or some such thing where it was suggested that a woman might not have been raped if she hadn't cut her hair?

Aren't you aware of women who feel called to preach but are not respected by all as a man would be?

And haven't you said many, many times that you would not respect nor want a woman in leadership over men?

Is it possible that this might be a fall out from the early church fathers who greatly influenced the direction of the Catholic Church and Christian thought for centuries?

I personally have female family members who cannot aspire to any leadership position in their organization above a man.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Newman

Felicity- Weren't you at a conference or banquet or some such thing where it was suggested that a woman might not have been raped if she hadn't cut her hair?

Yes, but that was a brand new thing not ever heard before (in my area at least) and it came from one individual. I've never seen this persecution or put down of women in my experience or in the churches I've been in or pastored over the years.

Aren't you aware of women who feel called to preach but are not respected by all as a man would be?

Sure but I also know many who are!

And haven't you said many, many times that you would not respect nor want a woman in leadership over men?

I have said many times that I prefer male leadership and I do. And???

Is it possible that this might be a fall out from the early church fathers who greatly influenced the direction of the Catholic Church and Christian thought for centuries?

Doesn't apply for me personally.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I get it...standards=persecution.

Gotcha.

I suspected that might be it.

Yeah.... when women are told that they must be so very careful how they dress lest the porn addict lust; it suggests oppression.

However, Barb's viewpoint of how women should adorn themselves was right on target...

"[O]ur position as Spirit filled women is to dress as becoming children of the Most High. Decency and modesty are attributes of the abiding Spirit, IMHO."