Strike While The Iron Is Hot?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Faith isn't blind! I don't believe that we can use that scripture to justify baptizing someone without them understanding why they need to be baptized. Even John the Baptist expected those coming to him for baptism to bring forth fruit that indicated they had truly repented. (Mt.3:8)

On the Day of Pentecost, Peter, after telling the multitude to repent and be baptized, didn't immediately baptize them. Acts2:40 informs us that with many other words he warned them and pleaded with them. Then verse 41 says, "Those who accepted his message were baptized."

Early on in my ministry I tended to baptize immediately, but after finding that some people got caught up in the moment and got baptized, but then didn't continue on to walk with the Lord, I began to be more careful. To me baptism is too important to make it a light matter. I like to know the Word has taken root beyond the first time they have responded to it. Jesus says we're to first count the cost and then follow Him.

I understand the desire to move quickly, but totally agree with this post. Over the years, I have seen many come and respond in the moment and then when the emotion wears off they fall away.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Faith isn't blind! I don't believe that we can use that scripture to justify baptizing someone without them understanding why they need to be baptized. Even John the Baptist expected those coming to him for baptism to bring forth fruit that indicated they had truly repented. (Mt.3:8)

First of all I did not say I was justifying anything other than the importance of obedience. John expected fruit of repentance...he did not sit down with them and give a 2 day bible study on what baptism means.

On the Day of Pentecost, Peter, after telling the multitude to repent and be baptized, didn't immediately baptize them. Acts2:40 informs us that with many other words he warned them and pleaded with them. Then verse 41 says, "Those who accepted his message were baptized."

Yes but where does it say he gave them a bible study on what the meaning of baptism was before they could be baptized? I mean, the truth is they WERE baptized immediately. There is no indication hours and days went by between verse 38 and verse 41.

In fact verse 40 is just Peter still trying to convince them people they needed to be saved

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Not ONE word about a bible study on the the WHYs of baptism

Early on in my ministry I tended to baptize immediately, but after finding that some people got caught up in the moment and got baptized, but then didn't continue on to walk with the Lord, I began to be more careful. To me baptism is too important to make it a light matter. I like to know the Word has taken root beyond the first time they have responded to it. Jesus says we're to first count the cost and then follow Him.

It doesn't take hours or days to instruct someone why they are being baptized. Immediate is sadly here is being subjective. You can instruct that person in a matter of minutes and let them know what is the importance of water baptism.

And for the record I found out a LOT more about water baptism than just that I needed to be baptized, after I was baptized, and I never regretted my baptism and wanted to be re-baptized.

Now, I still don't see you showing me how what I said is out of context. Usually when someone does that they show you the context and show how you used it has nothing to do with how you used it. And How I used it was to show how important obedience was....care to show me ?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Bishop ... I am more convinced every day that their position is flawed at best .... we fall into trouble when we must create such analogies to fit our doctrine ... absolutely no coherency or harmony with the ultimate source ... God's Word.

Please continue to be a purveyor of truth, as you of a great blessing. Seriously.

Could you be more specific when you say "their position", because I never used an analogy. I don't want you to be putting all of us in that position. That would be dishonest

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Faith isn't blind! I don't believe that we can use that scripture to justify baptizing someone without them understanding why they need to be baptized. Even John the Baptist expected those coming to him for baptism to bring forth fruit that indicated they had truly repented. (Mt.3:8)

On the Day of Pentecost, Peter, after telling the multitude to repent and be baptized, didn't immediately baptize them. Acts2:40 informs us that with many other words he warned them and pleaded with them. Then verse 41 says, "Those who accepted his message were baptized."

Early on in my ministry I tended to baptize immediately, but after finding that some people got caught up in the moment and got baptized, but then didn't continue on to walk with the Lord, I began to be more careful. To me baptism is too important to make it a light matter. I like to know the Word has taken root beyond the first time they have responded to it. Jesus says we're to first count the cost and then follow Him.

And ADDED to the church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be baptized to be ADDED to the church.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Sorry to hear this, but I keep hearing this analogy of the new birth compared to a baby in the womb having life, but not yet born, which we know is true in the natural. However, it doesn't stand up to their doctrinal position that repentance is death, and baptism burial, which must happen before being born of the Spirit.

Flawed????????????????? Jesus, Peter, James, Paul , John, used this analogy of the new birth but what did they know????????????

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Flawed????????????????? Jesus, Peter, James, Paul , John, used this analogy of the new birth but what did they know????????????

Yeah .. they did and they knew when it started ... kudos for your tenacity.

[The Dean]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

And ADDED to the church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be baptized to be ADDED to the church.

Epley,

I love your tenacity. I love the fact you don't bend to fit popular molds.

I'm glad you're here.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Flawed????????????????? Jesus, Peter, James, Paul , John, used this analogy of the new birth but what did they know????????????

They used the new birth analogy but they didn't use the baby in the womb analogy.

[berkeley]

John the Baptist said to "...Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance..."

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

You ever hear the phrase... "there's always room for Jello"?

Man... there's always time for teaching.

I think too much is done in the heat of the moment these days. It is almost like... hey lets dunk them before they change their mind. Well if you only have a few minutes window of time before they change their mind then how deep is this conversion?

I don't mean a 3 week bible study before you baptize them. I don't even mean wait until another night. But I think people need (and they even appreciate) someone taking the time to sit down for a few minutes and explain what all this is that is going on here.

We once had an evangelist come in who, when he would go and pray for people, would stop them and ask if they had repented. He explained what repentance was, what it was for, why we needed to do it, and all that... They would then repent (if they hadn't done so before) and he would continue praying for them.

I don't remember any of the numbers from the revival.... sorry.

But these people then actually understood more about what was going on.

Quite often people feel something VERY real but are confused as all get out because they don't know what's going on.

Whew... a few minutes can make a world of difference.

What's the hurry? Fear? Whatever is not of faith is sin.

It is the word that is going to change their lives. It is the spirit that is going to give them the power to accomplish it.

Don't let them walk off into that water... don't let them be put under that water calling on that name... don't let them do this... without first making sure that they, at least in some measure, comprehend the unbelievable, merciful, powerful, life changing thing that is about to happen.

There are several things in life too beautiful to just fly off in a mad rush into... this is certainly one of them.

I agree. Before Phillip baptized the Ethiopian, he taught him about baptism. Before Peter baptized on the day of Pentecost, the converts were instructed about baptism. Before Paul baptized the 12 Ephesian brothers, he instructed them about baptism. I think the phrase "strike when the iron is hot" is misapplied here. New converts are usually caught up in enthusiam and express a desire to be baptized without understanding the purpose and significance of baptism. Usually, those who are baptized without some very basic instruction don't last very long. I think they should be instructed as to the purpose of baptism and what is expected of them once they are baptized.
'Course that might cut down on the number we baptize, but with some basic instuction, those who are baptized are likely to last.