How Many of HIS Creation will He Lose to "HELL"?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Crajak the problem is NOT in the Saviour the problem is in those who reject His salvation. God is a gentleman He will NOT force Himself on any who do NOT want Him.

I agree the God is a gentleman, and nowhere have I suggested that He would force Himself on anyone. Rather, He will present Himself as a loving father presents truths to his children until his children's eyes are opened, at which time they will willingly and thoroughly accept Him. My sons from age about 13 to 17 thought they had out grown my input and my wisdom, but some how by 19 to 21 they suddenly saw their dad in a totally new light and fast friends we have become again. In that process I changed my approach, at times I pulled back and let them experience the results of their decisions, but my love for them never, ever waned. Can I possibly love my children more than our Heavenly Father loves His creation? No one whom truly experiences and knows God will ever reject Him or His salvation, He is that great! Folks will walk away from religion but not "the friend that sticks closer than a brother.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

How come in Noah's day when the rain fell those who weren't in the Ark were destroyed ,doesn't that seem a bit cruel of God ?

My dear brother Scott, the end of physical life is not the end of the person that God created. Those folks perished, which means that their physical lives were wasted. But God was not finish with them. Yes, the lost of this life prematurely is cruel, however as the scripture says: "If we have hope in this life only, we are most miserable." And "...it is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment" (the setting of things aright).

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He used an analogy to show how numerous Abraham's seed would be. He did not use an analogy to show all humans, whether decedents of Abraham or not, would be saved

We have just as much reason to use the complete analogy as you do to discount the total analogy. Plus it much more follows the character of a loving, merciful, all knowing God, than the God created by the apostate church.

"...if you fathers, being evil, know how to give to your children....how much more will your Heavenly Father give..."

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Atheists, agnostics and pagans use that same argument.

Strawman! No this argument is the invisible man.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Scott did you get my point? This is the emotional argument of CrakJ that Atheists, Agnostics and Pagans have all used by pointing at Sodom, the flood and hell. Even CJ here believes in a hell where they are punished for a while.

The wicked are punished in the since and duration, as wheat is thrashed to remove the chaff, and gold is forged to remove the dross. God does not punish punitively, because that would violate His character.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Scott I don't believe they are redeemed CJ does

Romans 8:20

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

All creation will be delivered from corruption.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by crakjak

So God is so great and so loving, that He created man in His image and then gave him a gift of choice so that the majority would reject him and be torched forever???? That does not fit the God of scripture nor does it seem to fit a very astute creator, that fits the twisted mind of fallen man.

There are only three possible positions (in light of scripture) that you could take on this subject:

#1 It is God's purpose to save all sinners, therefore He will eventually save all sinners.

#2 It is not God's purpose to save all (He has chosen not to save all), therefore most will be tortured endlessly or annihilated.

#3 It is God's purpose and will to save all sinners, however He is unable to do so.

To which do you subscribe?

Bump

[Timmy]

Most human souls are conceived but never born. The egg doesn't implant in the womb, or there is a miscarriage (or abortion) later. Many of those who are born die before reaching an age where they understand the choices they have. These souls will be in Heaven, will they not? If so, there will be many times more people in Heaven than in Hell (even if you are not a universalist, and even if only a very small percentage of adults make it to Heaven).

Just thought I'd throw that out. Started a thread on that topic a while back, but it didn't generate a lot of (serious) interest!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

We have just as much reason to use the complete analogy as you do to discount the total analogy. Plus it much more follows the character of a loving, merciful, all knowing God, than the God created by the apostate church.

"...if you fathers, being evil, know how to give to your children....how much more will your Heavenly Father give..."

Look, Im not sure if you understand an analogy or not. Analogy is not example. If I said "Crackjack is like a timex watch, he just keeps on ticking" that does not make you a watch.

God did not say to Abraham "your children well be the stars of heaven"...He did not say "all people will be your children"...He did not say "your seed will be like the stars of heaven"...he said "Your children will be a large number just as the stars are a large number"

Ok? First of all it was ONLY an analogy. Second of all the ONLY thing the analogy did was say how numerous his seed would be. This is really a stretch, even for you CJ.

Gen 15:5 He took him outside and said, "Gaze into the sky and count the stars — if you are able to count them!" Then he said to him, "So will your descendants be."

Gen 22:17 I will indeed bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be as countless as the stars in the sky or the grains of sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the strongholds of their enemies.

Gen 26:4 I will multiply your descendants so they will be as numerous as the stars in the sky, and I will give them all these lands. All the nations of the earth will pronounce blessings on one another using the name of your descendants.

The other verse was speaking of LITERAL stars in heaven, not souls

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Strawman! No this argument is the invisible man.

How is it a strawman argument? Im pointing out simply that they DO use it and they use it in an attempt to generate ill emotions about the God of the bible in order to subvert the faith of Christians,