A Godhead Question

[Michael The Disciple]

Rhoni, I agree with you that Oneness Pentecostals find it very uncomfortable to freely use the terminology of Scripture in reference to the Godhead.

What? You must not have heard much Oneness teaching on the Godhead.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Rhoni, I agree with you that Oneness Pentecostals find it very uncomfortable to freely use the terminology of Scripture in reference to the Godhead.

I disagree with your conclusion as to whom we are to pray. Jesus has the final word and He taught His disciples to pray, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..."

Notice that the verse you quote here is referring to what we DO. This is proper, because the only authority we have to DO anything in the Kingdom of God is the name of the King, Jesus Christ.

Scripture points us to the following conclusion, which I find to be powerful myself. We come to the Father, through Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit. When I came to realize this simple truth it transformed my approach to God.

Jesus came to reconcile me to the Father. He made it possible, through my union with Him, to have this wonderful relationship with the Father. Now He makes it possible for me to maintain that relationship by serving as the mediator between me and my Father. The Holy Spirit is the power behind that mediation.

TB,

I must confess that while attending the AOG church while in college, I was very uncomfortable with at the prayers and references to Father God. Although you have a good point, I still do not feel comfortable praying to God except through Jesus. If Jesus is he mediator isn't it to him that we make petition?

Sincerely, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What? You must not have heard much Oneness teaching on the Godhead.

Far from the truth Brother. My Pastor was such a good teacher that I learned very little scriptually at Bible College. I was not challenged in the least bit intellectually until Bro. Dan Lewis came to JCM.

Very few Apostolic preachers can teach the Godhead and oneness with any level of competency. I remember the debate with Bro. Sabin and Bro. Urshan on the onenress of the Godhead and was, quite frankly, a bit embarraassed.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

1 Cor 1:2 refers to those who 'call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord' which is a reference to addressing Jesus Christ directly (obviously fulfilling the definition of 'prayer to Jesus'). The apostle identifies Christians as those who 'call upon the name of Jesus Christ', therefore anyone who does not call upon the name of Jesus Christ is not a Christian, and since calling upon His name indicates addressing Him directly, anyone who does not address Him directly indicates they are either not a Christian or else seriously confused about some things.

Paul says he prayed to Jesus 3 times (2 Corinthians 12:8-9) in regard to one single issue!

1 John 5:14-15 is very strong evidence that praying to Jesus is acceptable and normal apostolic practice. (The referrent object of 'him' is the preceding 'son of God').

Acts 1:24 appears to be a clear case of corporate prayer to Jesus.


1 Timothy 1:12 has Paul giving thanks to Jesus. If we cannot pray to Jesus, we cannot give thanks to Him as well. Prayer is more than merely petition...

In Acts chapter 7, Stephen addresses Jesus directly in prayer.

The very last words of the Bible are a prayer to Jesus (Revelation 22:20).

Now, here's something interesting...

John 14:14 in the NASB reads thus:

'If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

The ESV also follows this reading, as does the ancient Latin and the modern NIV.

I am aware of what you have written here and agree that we have examples of appealing directly to Jesus. However, at the same time it is just as apparent that we can address God as Father. It's not a matter of having to choose one or the other. It's in the name of Jesus that we have authority to call upon the Father.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

TB,

I must confess that while attending the AOG church while in college, I was very uncomfortable with at the prayers and references to Father God. Although you have a good point, I still do not feel comfortable praying to God except through Jesus. If Jesus is he mediator isn't it to him that we make petition?

Sincerely, Rhoni

I return to the point that Jesus is the one who directed His diciples to pray, "Our Father..." For this reason alone we shouldn't feel uncomfortable addressing God as Father when we pray.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I am aware of what you have written here and agree that we have examples of appealing directly to Jesus. However, at the same time it is just as apparent that we can address God as Father. It's not a matter of having to choose one or the other. It's in the name of Jesus that we have authority to call upon the Father.

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I return to the point that Jesus is the one who directed His diciples to pray, "Our Father..." For this reason alone we shouldn't feel uncomfortable addressing God as Father when we pray.

I agree, especially when we understand that they are one and the same...Jesus IS God made known in the flesh.

I pray many times, "Father, in the Name of Jesus..."

[Sherri]

We have people in our church who pray, "Father God,...." It doesn't offend me, and they almost always end "in the name of Jesus". I don't say "Father God" just because it's not what I'm used to, but I do pray "Father"..... and I pray in Jesus' name. I don't think God gets all weirded out by our wording.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I was with you on the spirit being neuter gender, therefore being called "it" however, God is a spirit and he's always referred to as "he".

You are spirit too, right? But is your spirit a she? Jesus is flesh. When we say HE are we talking about his body, his spirit or his soul?

Once again, in greek masculine nouns MUST take masculine pronouns. Neuter nouns MUST take neuter pronouns and on and on and on. That's how languages work.

This all leads towards a dangerous cultic idea where people believe God is a family and Father is the father, Son is the male offspring and Spirit is the feminine..that God HAS to have gender. Probably one reason for calling God a HE is that HE made man first and man is the head. It makes sense.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

There is no question that Jesus is God, but "in the form of God" means He had what "form" at that moment of His existence?

He had the form of God. He was existing in the form of God. He was existing AS GOD. I don't know how else to explain it

Again
NET commentary
11 sn The Greek term translated form indicates a correspondence with reality. Thus the meaning of this phrase is that Christ was truly God.

Vincents
Form (μορφή). We must here dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophic sense, to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains, and is thus permanently identified with that nature and character. Thus it is distinguished from σχῆμα fashion, comprising that which appeals to the senses and which is changeable. Μορφή form is identified with the essence of a person or thing: σχῆμα fashion is an accident which may change without affecting the form. For the manner in which this difference is developed in the kindred verbs, see on Mat_17:2.

It means......He was existing AS God. Why use the word Form? Because of the context of what Paul is saying...about how he took the FORM of a servant. Before He existed as a man, he existed as God

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Maybe the reason some people have a problem with praying to the Father is because they really don't understand the Godhead. They get all mixed up in their heads if they use the terms, Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit interchangeably. To save themselves getting twisted up and scrambled they play it safe by praying to "Jesus" only.

I pray to the Father all the time. He IS my Father so why would I not address him as Father?