Questioning the Holy Bible!!

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

They translated more than thoughts. They are the exact words of God. Not just the thoughts.

You got scripture for that?

I'm curious as to why Jesus himself didn't write anything in the New Testament! He obviously had the ability to do so. Why did he choose to have others quote him instead of writing things down himself? More things that make you go hmmmmmmmm!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I know that the Holy Bible was inspired by God, but it was written by human beings. I can’t help but think that maybe the authors were influenced in their inspired writings by their given traditions and culture. In fact, many traditions in their culture were pagan in origin.

I disagree. Most of the bible was written by Hebrews and their culture was NOT pagan. Second, which is it? They were inspired by God or they were inspired by paganism? Would God's inspiration allow for a pagan inspiration too?

If the bible were written today, would it be different? What if God personally visited Kenneth Haney and inspired him to write an epistle to the UPCI? Wouldn’t Bro. Haney’s inspired words be influenced by the paradigm of our present culture?

Yes the bible would be different, but necessarily culturally but rather linguistically. BTW perhaps the difference culturally is that the authors like Paul would address some of our cultural issues and use the bible to correct our understanding. Many people don't realize this, but for all our thumping about how we are not under the Old Testament, the early church only had the Old Testament to preach from and the oral traditions or sayings of Jesus until they were finally written down. They read and preached the Old Testament.

Many folks forget that our present day New Testament 27 books were approved and canonized by the Catholic Church in 397 AD at the 3rd Synod of Carthage. They left out other epistles such as the ‘Epistle to the Laodiceans’, which up to that time had been included in the German bible. They also left out other gospels such as ‘The Gospel of Thomas’. They consider these books heresy. They also consider Oneness Apostolic beliefs to be heresy!

Actually there were many canons even before Carthage. The "Catholic church" at that time was not yet overwhelmingly like we see the Roman Catholic church today. It was in development. However choosing a canon of books is not the same as writing them. I was not aware there was a German bible in 397...wow. The earlies translation was from greek to latin, that we know of, by Jerome. We also consider such books as "The Gospel of Thomas" to be heresy AND gnostic in origin AND spurious. They came to these conclusions both internally and externally. Same with other supposed epistles and gospels. Many of then never existed until a couple hundred years after Christ.

Others might be genuine but sadly contain interpolations and we can never be sure of the original content. I think our bible is fine the way it is. We don't need additional books. The Mormons try to tell us otherwise.

BTW It was Luther I believe that gave us protestants our present bible today

My point is that we as Oneness Apostolics readily accept the Holy Bible as determined by our sworn adversary, the Trinitarian Catholic Church!!!

Wrong again. The only adversary I have is the devil. People are idiots. What you keep calling the Catholic Church was not yet a monolithic organization that exists today as the Roman Catholic Church. They had not incorporated all the many different doctrines yet into their system and believe this or not, even they didn't get everything wrong. They do believe in the virgin birth. They do believe Jesus is God. They do believe Jesus was human. They do believe Jesus died on the cross, unlike the gnostics which believed Jesus never died.

We find that the Nicean Council was in error in establishing the trinity doctrine as the official doctrine of the Catholic church. Has anyone ever questioned the omission of other epistles and gospels?

Nicea ONLY determined that the Son was God and even then their original statement was considered too appeasing to the Sabellianists of all things. And did you know that not too long later the Trinitarians were booted out and Arianism made the official godhead doctrine of the Roman Empire? Then the Arians were booted out and Trinitarians placed back in power

Things that make you go……Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Not really. We know why they rejected those gospels and epistles and they did so rightly.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brett Prince

The Catholic Church, or the ROMAN Catholic Church?

Makes a difference, as many referred to themselves as Catholic before the RCC, as Catholic simply meant "universal."

If what you are implying is the truth, then you have a great point. If, though, it was just the "universal" church, then your point would seem, to me, to be moot.

Exactly right. At first the Roman Catholic church was simply the Church in Rome with it's own Bishop. It did not hold power over the rest of the Roman Empire for some time. And in fact it never really held power over the eastern Orthodox churches, though it claimed it did. This was part of the reason for the split I believe

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I'm sorry, I meant the Roman Catholic Church with Peter as the first pope!

It wasn't the Roman Catholic Church though that decided the Canon. It was Bishops and other scholars from the Catholic church

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

You got scripture for that?

I'm curious as to why Jesus himself didn't write anything in the New Testament! He obviously had the ability to do so. Why did he choose to have others quote him instead of writing things down himself? More things that make you go hmmmmmmmm!

Rev 1:10 I came to be in the Spirit in the Lord's day and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 saying, I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last. Also, What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me.

Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders spoke their sounds, I was about to write. And I heard a voice from Heaven saying to me, Seal up what things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write these things.

Exo 17:14 And Jehovah said to Moses, Write this, a memorial in a book, and set it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heavens.

Exo 34:1 And Jehovah said to Moses, Cut out two tablets of stone like the first. And I will write upon the tablets the words that were in the first tablets which you broke.

Exo 34:27 And Jehovah said to Moses, Write these words for yourself; for on the mouth of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.

Nuff said?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

You got scripture for that?

I'm curious as to why Jesus himself didn't write anything in the New Testament! He obviously had the ability to do so. Why did he choose to have others quote him instead of writing things down himself? More things that make you go hmmmmmmmm!

Same reason God had Moses write stuff? Nope, does not make me go Hmmmmmm

[RevDWW]

Are you discounting that God is all powerful?

Couldn't He have created all the circumstances in the translators lives to be such that they'd write what He wanted written?

Hasn't God used pagans for His purpose throughout history?

Haven' you experienced what's written in His word in a personal manner?

Then why doubt?

[RandyWayne]

From what we know God DID directly write the Ten Commandments.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

From what we know God DID directly write the Ten Commandments.

The first time, but then Moses, in his anger, broke those stone tablets and how to go back and get them again. God made Moses carve out the two tablets and then He wrote the law again.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Are you discounting that God is all powerful?

Couldn't He have created all the circumstances in the translators lives to be such that they'd write what He wanted written?

Hasn't God used pagans for His purpose throughout history?

Haven' you experienced what's written in His word in a personal manner?

Then why doubt?

I am merely pondering questions out loud! If Jesus would have written down some things himself, then his words and thoughts wouldn't have been neccessarily second hand by his disciples. This would have given the bible more credibility to unbelievers.

No, I am not smarter than God! Just stupid simple questions!

Like I said before, I'm playing the devil's advocate to make people think! I'm just pulling chains!