Why do we use trinitarian..........

Originally Posted by sola gratia

LOL - love the signature by the way

Thanks, I'm always looking for new ways to annoy people.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Why? If they believe Jesus is God, isn't the rest just semantics? I know that semantics is a dirty word around here. lol.

Price is right. (no pun intended) Ask a Trinitarian if Jesus is the Father. It is far from semantics. You may want to believe we belive in the same God of the Bible that Trinitarians do but that is not true. The God is different and because of that, Jesus is a different Jesus as well.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

Worse Bro - they label trinitarians as pagans, dogs, deceivers, and false prophets... and actually some worse

Oneness get the same from Trinitarians. So who is the worse of the two? Or are they both behaving just as badly as the other.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Price is right. (no pun intended) Ask a Trinitarian if Jesus is the Father. It is far from semantics. You may want to believe we belive in the same God of the Bible that Trinitarians do but that is not true. The God is different and because of that, Jesus is a different Jesus as well.

Please provide scripture to prove that. I mean come on. You and others have said the same things. No one has yet to provide sufficent evidence that they serve another god. The fact is that God is God whether he is worshipped by a trinitarian or a oneness person. Muslims and other serve another God, because the God their book talks about it a totally different God than the Bible talks about. The Bible talks only about one God. For you or anyone to suggest that trinitarians serve "another god" is crazy.

[sola gratia]

By and large this dispute is little more than over indulged propaganda. I think the fear here is really displayed in the thread... or in this song really - listen to it, read the lyrics
CLC- I am a Pentecostal http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5401

[YT="CLC- I'm A Pentecostal-

Gettin' With It!"]6vd_C5KX_lk[/YT]

Oneness people have a superiority complex. “We are the anointed of God.” “We have the truth” – as the light emanates from their very being..

Listen! They like the exclusivity! They like the way it makes them feel to be …. Better, and different. Look at the lyrics to the song in the link provided… Being oneness makes them feel special… If you make this about semantics, if this is not a damnable doctrine… Then you have pulled the rug of superiority and exclusivity out from them… they fear this…. Because now … they are on the same level as others who profess Jesus Christ, speak in tongues… and (gulp) wear makeup!!!!!!!

Their sole purpose of existence is their difference. It’s who they are… See we are not messing with doctrine here… Sheesh 9/10’s of apostolic’s cannot intellectually state their view… We are messing with tradition, and feelings of security, belonging and self worth

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

By and large this dispute is little more than over indulged propaganda. I think the fear here is really displayed in the thread... or in this song really - listen to it, read the lyrics
CLC- I am a Pentecostal http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5401

[YT="CLC- I'm A Pentecostal-

Gettin' With It!"]6vd_C5KX_lk[/YT]

Oneness people have a superiority complex. “We are the anointed of God.” “We have the truth” – as the light emanates from their very being..

Listen! They like the exclusivity! They like the way it makes them feel to be …. Better, and different. Look at the lyrics to the song in the link provided… Being oneness makes them feel special… If you make this about semantics, if this is not a damnable doctrine… Then you have pulled the rug of superiority and exclusivity out from them… they fear this…. Because now … they are on the same level as others who profess Jesus Christ, speak in tongues… and (gulp) wear makeup!!!!!!!

Their sole purpose of existence is their difference. It’s who they are… See we are not messing with doctrine here… Sheesh 9/10’s of apostolic’s cannot intellectually state their view… We are messing with tradition, and feelings of security, belonging and self worth

Great post. Perfectly said!

[sola gratia]

Thanks - I realy feel this is true.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by sola gratia

Thanks - I realy feel this is true.

I agree. I think it is stuff like that pushes people away. Stinking Elitism!

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Price is right. (no pun intended) Ask a Trinitarian if Jesus is the Father. It is far from semantics. You may want to believe we belive in the same God of the Bible that Trinitarians do but that is not true. The God is different and because of that, Jesus is a different Jesus as well.

It's definitely not mere semantics but I think you're approaching this the wrong way.

Oneness teaches that there is one God and that this one God is manifested as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Since Father, Son and Holy Spirit are merely manifestations of this one God, wouldn't it be more accurate to ask if Jesus is the one God? You can replace "manifestations" with "modes" if you wish. Let me ask you: How can Jesus be God if He is just a manifestation or mode of God?


Now, for some comparisons:

"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty...And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages...and we believe in the Holy Spirit."

- From the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed -

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

- 1 Corinthians 8:6 -

"There is one God, Jesus."

- A simplistic stating of oneness belief -

Also, consider the following:

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

- John 14:28 -

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

- John 20:17 -

"For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily."

- Colossians 2:9 -

Jesus never said He was "the Father." He did, however, say the Father was greater than He.

You're using the term "Father" interchangeably with the word "God" and, in so doing, are doing exactly what many modern trinitarians do when they try to explain away oneness explanations of certain passages (the old, "Well 'God' in this passage really means 'the Father'").

My point is in the following three questions:

1. What is it about GOD that makes HIM "the Father"?
2. What is it about GOD that makes HIM "the Son"?
3. What is it about GOD that makes HIM "the Holy Spirit"?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Please provide scripture to prove that. I mean come on. You and others have said the same things. No one has yet to provide sufficent evidence that they serve another god. The fact is that God is God whether he is worshipped by a trinitarian or a oneness person. Muslims and other serve another God, because the God their book talks about it a totally different God than the Bible talks about. The Bible talks only about one God. For you or anyone to suggest that trinitarians serve "another god" is crazy.

Would you rather call it a 'misunderstanding' about WHO God is? I can't find the Trinity in scripture so that tells me, it doesn't exist and is a false teaching about WHO God is. The Trinity:

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. (See also, "Another Look at the Trinity")
Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.
There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13).
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

Trinitarians call each person of the Trinity, God. So The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Then they equivocate on the meaning of the word, God. When you read the definition of the Trinity above, how do you envision this God who is a Trinity? Can this God say 'I AM' truthfully?

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. [Stop here and think about what the creed is saying. There is one God = The Father , then it goes on to say that Jesus is the Son of God from eternity and not only is Jesus the Son but is the same Being as the Father. Chew on that one for awhile and see if you can find that in the Bible] Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. [Another STOP, LOOK, THINK about what this is saying. The creed is saying that three are worshipped not one but three.] He has spoken through the Prophets. [Please read closely. Who spoke through the Prophets? Not only does the Bible teach the Spirit spoke but it also teaches that the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets speaking through them and also that God spoke through the prophets. 1 Peter 1:11, 2 Peter 1:21, Hebrews 1:1] We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. [WHAT? *SHOCK!!* oloroid]We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
http://www.carm.org/creeds/nicene.htm

Is your understanding of God the same as in the two references I quoted? Is your God and their God the same God by definition? Be truthful and honest with yourself.