Chris Reed

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Prophets can pronounce things to take place. Elijah calling fire down from heaven to the false prophets, for example. Surely you heard of that.
Elijah commanded the sky to not rain for 3.5 years!

Why didn't Agabus create a different future for the poor across the ancient world? Or for Paul, for that matter?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's not so much an "error of their faith" as much as it is they were, as far as I can tell, low rent religious used car salesmen. To put it mildly.

By error of faith I meant their aberrant doctrines and used FAITH is in THE FAITH verses aberrant faith. But I agree with your assessment, though I still deny that was the case with Branham. Branham got into false doctrine later.

He was mightily used to promote the Jesus' name baptism early on in his ministry. A ball of fire came and appeared when he was baptizing people in the river. Scores of people saw it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Somebody hearing that Jesus heals and they get healed is different than a person having the gift of healing.

Just saying.

But anyone who knew about Branham much at all would know it was a gift for certain in his case.

I know of an entire first nations church in unceded territory in Canada that started as the result of a woman listening to Branham on the radio and claiming her healing by the faith built up, and instantly and miraculously healed from a crippling condition. And the entire chrch is still there today preaching Jesus' name as a result. Branham never even attended the place. I spoke the woman's son and preached for him in the past.

So mightily used, but fell so terribly into error. All because he loved to teach when he was not called for that. Reminds me of Uzziah.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Why didn't Agabus create a different future for the poor across the ancient world? Or for Paul, for that matter?

Are you saying that Elijah did not cause the future of a rainless sky? I believe Paul changed the future of the man whose arm he commanded to whither. It just happened in the bible that way, and who are we to deny it?

Why don't we command poverty to disappear, too in our world? There are some things within our ability and some that are not. But that does not detract from the fact that these men commanded things to occur and they did.

[Amanah]

People are healed by their faith in Christ, that doesn't necessarily confirm a ministry.

Also, Balaam prophesied blessings on Israel, and his heart wasn't right with God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

People are healed by their faith in Christ, that doesn't necessarily confirm a ministry.

Also, Balaam prophesied blessings on Israel, and his heart wasn't right with God.

But none of that denies that any given person has this ministry, too. IOW, that is not the point. The question in this thread is not what ministry is involved, but how God operates these gifts through us. Is this not of God because, as Esaias says, false prophets use the same manner? I proved that cannot be the case because false prophets did what Moses did, and their manners were the same. The outcome of the direction of worship vindicates the prophet, not the manner. Does the prophet lead people to other gods or to Christ?

[Amanah]

The desired outcome is the salvation of sinners, and the edification and perfecting of the saints. So yes, pointing people to Jesus.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Are you saying that Elijah did not cause the future of a rainless sky? I believe Paul changed the future of the man whose arm he commanded to whither. It just happened in the bible that way, and who are we to deny it?

Why don't we command poverty to disappear, too in our world? There are some things within our ability and some that are not. But that does not detract from the fact that these men commanded things to occur and they did.

Did Elijah cause it to rain? Or did he pray and God heard his prayer?

James 5:16-18 KJV
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. [17] Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. [18] And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

I am not sure what you are referencing about Paul and a guy's withered hand?

My point was a blanket statement that "the difference between a psychic and a prophet is the psychic predicts the future and a prophet creates the future" is... foolish, in my opinion. In reality, the difference between a psychic and a prophet is that one is demonised (or a fraud) and the other is anointed and gifted by God to speak on God's behalf.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But none of that denies that any given person has this ministry, too. IOW, that is not the point. The question in this thread is not what ministry is involved, but how God operates these gifts through us. Is this not of God because, as Esaias says, false prophets use the same manner? I proved that cannot be the case because false prophets did what Moses did, and their manners were the same. The outcome of the direction of worship vindicates the prophet, not the manner. Does the prophet lead people to other gods or to Christ?

My question (not making a point, but asking a genuine question) was why do many MODERN prophets follow a method that is not seen in Scripture but which appears to have been DEVELOPED by frauds and psychics? The magicians imitated Moses, Moses did not imitate the magicians. Do you see what I am saying?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

People are healed by their faith in Christ, that doesn't necessarily confirm a ministry.

Also, Balaam prophesied blessings on Israel, and his heart wasn't right with God.

I don't think the comparison is equal. Balaam was an old testament prophet, likely a prophet for hire. As such, possibly a fraud. When hired by Balak, God intervened and gave him a message, for a particular situation. Balaam did not have a continuing divine prophetic ministry, nor was he a Christian. So I don't think the comparison is really equal.

A genuine prophet of God might become a drunkard. But I seriously doubt a genuine prophet of God would be fleecing people for money, living like a drunkard and possibly a whoremonger/adulterer, and running a religious scam while likely not even being a believer at all.

If the Holy Ghost is what seals us to the day of redemption, and the Holy Ghost manifests via spiritual gifts, and yet anyone, any backslid or apostate-in-heart Tom, Dick, or Harry can be used continuously in the spiritual gifts... then what exactly is the point of the Holy Ghost, again?