If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

When Jesus says in Matthew 5:6 "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled" what does that mean to you? When you open up the door to self justification, and all this "well, I can't ever be perfect" spirit, that's the first step to becoming a cast away! It doesn't all happen at once, but it is something that happens one step at a time. (I'm not saying anything wrong to anyone by the way this is just in general btw!)

We down play our desire, most the time. Because if above anything else I desire to please God and be righteous before Him I will be filled! That word filled is very interesting because it denotes "to fodder that is (genitive case) to gorge (supply food in abundance): - feed fill satisfy." That means there is no room for anything else! And the part about hungering and thirsting, do a word study of it, this is not a casual desire at all. To hunger is "to crave ardently, to seek with eager desire", and to thirst is "figuratively, those who are said to thirst who painfully feel their want of, and eagerly long for, those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, strengthened." If that describes your desire to please God, then the scripture also promises "Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart."

Now, will at times you fail? Yes. At times will you stumble? Of course! Yet, should I just make exceptions for myself, and justify myself by reciting scripture and say "we all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God"? God forbid!

This is the problem with the modern day church, no one is desperate. Desperation brings deliverance, desperation brings miracles, desperation brings with it, the super natural power of God. This is why going to comfortable church, where no sin is ever confronted is so dangerous. Before you know it, you become stagnant, and satisfied where you are, and before you know it you lose all desperation. Desperation is linked to desire whether you like it or not, they go hand and hand! All that I want is to please God, and when it all comes down to that, all the rest of the trivial things don't matter.

I don't know about you Brothers and Sisters, but I hunger, and I'm thirsting after righteousness, and I'm standing on the Word of Jesus that I shall be filled! Just because I was bound by sin before today, I don't have to be, In Jesus Name! But if I open up the door to that, I will never be able to break free. Thats truthfully what the devil wants, because he can't do anything to me in that way apart from my consent. Although, if I welcome these ideologies in, then he's got me right where he wants me. Bottom line!

[Costeon]

I thought my question was going to elicit a pretty straightforward response, i.e., "yes because . . ." or "no, because . . ."

I'm not talking about backsliding. I'm not trying to justify sin. Maybe I overlooked if someone gave a straightforward reply (if I did please point me to the post), but the question is, When Christians sin, let's say they did not follow one of the many things Jesus commands in the Sermon on the Mount, are they at that moment lost until they confess their sin?

If someone thinks they never fall short and sin or only very rarely do so, they probably have an overdeveloped sense of their own righteousness. Reading the Sermon on the Mount or maybe just frequently talking to people close to us will probably help us have a more accurate view of ourselves.

And I will note again that, if we are only saved while we are perfectly fulfilling the will of God, then salvation is ultimately based on our ability to obey and not simply on God's mercy and grace.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I thought my question was going to elicit a pretty straightforward response, i.e., "yes because . . ." or "no, because . . ."

I'm not talking about backsliding. I'm not trying to justify sin. Maybe I overlooked if someone gave a straightforward reply (if I did please point me to the post), but the question is, When Christians sin, let's say they did not follow one of the many things Jesus commands in the Sermon on the Mount, are they at that moment lost until they confess their sin?

If someone thinks they never fall short and sin or only very rarely do so, they probably have an overdeveloped sense of their own righteousness. Reading the Sermon on the Mount or maybe just frequently talking to people close to us will probably help us have a more accurate view of ourselves.

And I will note again that, if we are only saved while we are perfectly fulfilling the will of God, then salvation is ultimately based on our ability to obey and not simply on God's mercy and grace.

Notice you have framed the discussion to really only allow one answer?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Notice you have framed the discussion to really only allow one answer?

I am sorry Costeon, if you are not getting the response you were looking for. Or that we are not being of much help. Maybe you could explain how you currently see your view of soteriology concerning your question. Maybe it would help if you show us how YOU would answer your own question?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Costeon

If someone thinks they never fall short and sin or only very rarely do so, they probably have an overdeveloped sense of their own righteousness.

So, therefore if people think they never fall short and sin or only very rarely they are delusional? The delusion would be that they only think they were righteous when in reality they are not. Because we all have to die and in heaven we lose our human will and become Ecclesiastical Stepford wives

Originally Posted by Costeon

Reading the Sermon on the Mount

Let's take pure in mind.

1 John 3:3 All who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as He is pure. Costeon, could you explain who is "as He is pure?" Because it is interesting that in Matthew 5:8 we are told by Jesus that only they with pure minds can see God, or should I say understand God. Please explain 1 John 3:3 and Matthew 5:8 for me. Thank you in advance.

Originally Posted by Costeon

or maybe just frequently talking to people close to us will probably help us have a more accurate view of ourselves.

What if they tell us that our views concerning ourselves are accurate?

Originally Posted by Costeon

And I will note again that, if we are only saved while we are perfectly fulfilling the will of God, then salvation is ultimately based on our ability to obey and not simply on God's mercy and grace.

Costeon in the book of Revelation the 7 churches of Asia Minor are told pretty much the same thing. I Know Thy WORKS. We are saved by grace, forgiven with His ever enduring mercy, but we are ultimately judged by our works. This is how we will be either set with the sheep or seperated with the goats.
We are told in Acts 5:32 that the Holy Ghost is given to only those who are obedient to God. This isn't our own human discipline, but our submission to follow the lead of the Holy Ghost. It is not according to our ability but His power leading us as we are His yoke fellow. If a person is struggling under the yoke, he might not be under Jesus' yoke, because Jesus' yoke is easy.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I thought my question was going to elicit a pretty straightforward response, i.e., "yes because . . ." or "no, because . . ."

I'm not talking about backsliding. I'm not trying to justify sin. Maybe I overlooked if someone gave a straightforward reply (if I did please point me to the post), but the question is, When Christians sin, let's say they did not follow one of the many things Jesus commands in the Sermon on the Mount, are they at that moment lost until they confess their sin?

If someone thinks they never fall short and sin or only very rarely do so, they probably have an overdeveloped sense of their own righteousness. Reading the Sermon on the Mount or maybe just frequently talking to people close to us will probably help us have a more accurate view of ourselves.

And I will note again that, if we are only saved while we are perfectly fulfilling the will of God, then salvation is ultimately based on our ability to obey and not simply on God's mercy and grace.

It's not that simple of a answer. There is no simple answer. "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Repentance is not a one time thing, it's a lifestyle, otherwise you are trampling the blood under foot..

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I thought my question was going to elicit a pretty straightforward response, i.e., "yes because . . ." or "no, because . . ."

I'm not talking about backsliding. I'm not trying to justify sin. Maybe I overlooked if someone gave a straightforward reply (if I did please point me to the post), but the question is, When Christians sin, let's say they did not follow one of the many things Jesus commands in the Sermon on the Mount, are they at that moment lost until they confess their sin?

If someone thinks they never fall short and sin or only very rarely do so, they probably have an overdeveloped sense of their own righteousness. Reading the Sermon on the Mount or maybe just frequently talking to people close to us will probably help us have a more accurate view of ourselves.

And I will note again that, if we are only saved while we are perfectly fulfilling the will of God, then salvation is ultimately based on our ability to obey and not simply on God's mercy and grace.

I assume when you mention "sin" you refer to any one of the sins listed in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 or Galatians 5:19-21. A sin that prevents one from entering the kingdom.

I thought I was pretty straightforward with my presentation that generally the Lord would use chastisment to effect repentance from the one who sinned. While such a person IS out of fellowship with Jesus we dont know his timetable for each person's chance to repent before being blotted out of the book of life.

As far as one having an "overdeveloped" sense of their righteousness and asking those close to witness against their confession that certainly COULD be true, but what if they ARE living without sin?

Heres an example:

1 Thess 2:10

10Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

In this case Paul calls the Thessalonian Church as his witnesses that himself, Silas, and Timothy were ALL living a life that was blamless, just, and holy.

Then he even calls GOD as a witness that these things are true!

Do you think Paul had an "overdeveloped" sense of his righteousness?

Was he afraid for the saints or even Jesus Christ to objectively examine his life?

In your last statement you said if we can only make it if we obey God we are not relying simply on his mercy and grace.

Well we know for SURE only those who DO the will of the Father will enter Heaven. Jesus said so!

Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he that DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

His mercy and grace will still allow mercy unto final salvation for the Christian who does have sin in his life if they will repent.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I assume when you mention "sin" you refer to any one of the sins listed in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 or Galatians 5:19-21. A sin that prevents one from entering the kingdom.

I thought I was pretty straightforward with my presentation that generally the Lord would use chastisment to effect repentance from the one who sinned. While such a person IS out of fellowship with Jesus we dont know his timetable for each person's chance to repent before being blotted out of the book of life.

As far as one having an "overdeveloped" sense of their righteousness and asking those close to witness against their confession that certainly COULD be true, but what if they ARE living without sin?

Heres an example:

1 Thess 2:10

10Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

In this case Paul calls the Thessalonian Church as his witnesses that himself, Silas, and Timothy were ALL living a life that was blamless, just, and holy.

Then he even calls GOD as a witness that these things are true!

Do you think Paul had an "overdeveloped" sense of his righteousness?

Was he afraid for the saints or even Jesus Christ to objectively examine his life?

In your last statement you said if we can only make it if we obey God we are not relying simply on his mercy and grace.

Well we know for SURE only those who DO the will of the Father will enter Heaven. Jesus said so!

Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he that DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

His mercy and grace will still allow mercy unto final salvation for the Christian who does have sin in his life if they will repent.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

It's not that simple of a answer. There is no simple answer. "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Repentance is not a one time thing, it's a lifestyle, otherwise you are trampling the blood under foot..

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Notice you have framed the discussion to really only allow one answer?

Is there not a simple yes-no answer to the single question, When a believer sins is he lost till he confesses it?