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  #41  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:02 PM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK Burk View Post
That church insurance has gotten to a place where having firearms present during church services is a savings consideration.

It's scary we've come to such a place.
Ah, I see. I thought you were saying the mere presence of guns was a scary thought.

You're saying it's a sad sign of the times that guns are expected in Church.
In Colonial times however, it was not just common to find guns in Church, it was expected (in fact, it was sometimes the law that they had to have one).

http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular...GunControl.PDF

Quote:
A 1619 statute required everyone to attend church on the Sabbath, “and all such as bear arms shall bring their pieces, swords, powder and shot.” Those failing to bring their guns were subject to a three shilling fine.
Virginia reissued this law in 1632: “All men that are fitting to bear arms, shall bring their pieces to the church…” and again in November 1738.
If anything, I'd say we're coming full circle.
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Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
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  #42  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:03 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

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Originally Posted by TK Burk View Post
I have to agree. Years ago we had a bat fly into our Sunday night service and flew all over. It caused an absolute meltdown--of men and women. One of the brothers stood on a back pew, smacked it down, and took it outside. I can only imagine how crazy a room full of Pentecostals would be if a shooter was in their service. Then add to that any (or all) who may be carrying shooting back. I don't know if that would be safer or not.

So, like you said, I also wondered how an insurance company would see that as a good thing. Maybe if the church had trained ushers that were in place for such a problem. But, again, I do not think I'd feel real safe with some of the ushers I've known--training or not.

But the pastor I spoke told me he had armed people (usually more than one) in every service, and that was something his insurance preferred.
this is where real faith comes like, kinda like when you are shouting with your eyes closed and you don't hit anyone or kill yourself.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:55 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
Ah, I see. I thought you were saying the mere presence of guns was a scary thought.

You're saying it's a sad sign of the times that guns are expected in Church.
In Colonial times however, it was not just common to find guns in Church, it was expected (in fact, it was sometimes the law that they had to have one).

http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular...GunControl.PDF



If anything, I'd say we're coming full circle.
To protect from savages?
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:56 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
this is where real faith comes like, kinda like when you are shouting with your eyes closed and you don't hit anyone or kill yourself.
I don’t think the Lord would be pleased.
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:35 PM
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TK Burk TK Burk is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
Ah, I see. I thought you were saying the mere presence of guns was a scary thought.

You're saying it's a sad sign of the times that guns are expected in Church.
In Colonial times however, it was not just common to find guns in Church, it was expected (in fact, it was sometimes the law that they had to have one).

http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular...GunControl.PDF



If anything, I'd say we're coming full circle.
I grew up with guns. My dad was a cop. I have other family members in the police force as well. I was shooting years before I went to Jr High. No fear of guns with me.

I did not know that about Colonial services. Interesting stuff. There really is nothing new is there?
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The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere.
 -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03

www.tkburk.com
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  #46  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:39 PM
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TK Burk TK Burk is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
this is where real faith comes like, kinda like when you are shouting with your eyes closed and you don't hit anyone or kill yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
I don’t think the Lord would be pleased.


Gotta agree with Houston on this one.
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The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere.
 -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03

www.tkburk.com
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:09 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

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Originally Posted by houston View Post
To protect from savages?
Probably. So nothing much has changed, it seems.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
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  #48  
Old 10-13-2017, 07:49 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
Ah, I see. I thought you were saying the mere presence of guns was a scary thought.

You're saying it's a sad sign of the times that guns are expected in Church.
In Colonial times however, it was not just common to find guns in Church, it was expected (in fact, it was sometimes the law that they had to have one).

http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular...GunControl.PDF



If anything, I'd say we're coming full circle.
Anyone here ever seen a demon or demons cast out of a person?

Not that all violence is demonically motivated but at times worship and praise does miraculous things. Had a group of troublemakers come into a service and through praise they became totally silenced. To the point that they joined in to clapping and singing. They stayed for the preaching then came to the altar. Had altercations in the street where Jesus handled the problem quite well. I have been jumped by five men and had the snot stomped out of me, but the Lord saved my life right before they crushed my skull in. So, while, guns, knives, axe handles, and a GE M134 minigun mounted on the pulpit may end all complaints against a bad sermon. Jesus can still calm the storm.
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  #49  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:47 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
J.esus i.s t.he o.ne God (463)


 
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Anyone here ever seen a demon or demons cast out of a person?

Not that all violence is demonically motivated but at times worship and praise does miraculous things. Had a group of troublemakers come into a service and through praise they became totally silenced. To the point that they joined in to clapping and singing. They stayed for the preaching then came to the altar. Had altercations in the street where Jesus handled the problem quite well. I have been jumped by five men and had the snot stomped out of me, but the Lord saved my life right before they crushed my skull in. So, while, guns, knives, axe handles, and a GE M134 minigun mounted on the pulpit may end all complaints against a bad sermon. Jesus can still calm the storm.
I don't disagree with any of that. However, even if I'm praying for someone who's severely hurt - and believing in faith that God can heal them - it's still prudent for someone to dial 911.

Likewise, even if I believe God can stop an attacker on a murderous rampage, it's still prudent to be armed. Jesus didn't rebuke Peter for carrying a sword, he rebuked Peter for interfering in His mission.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.
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  #50  
Old 10-13-2017, 02:52 PM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Concealed Carry in Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Anyone here ever seen a demon or demons cast out of a person?

Not that all violence is demonically motivated but at times worship and praise does miraculous things. Had a group of troublemakers come into a service and through praise they became totally silenced. To the point that they joined in to clapping and singing. They stayed for the preaching then came to the altar. Had altercations in the street where Jesus handled the problem quite well. I have been jumped by five men and had the snot stomped out of me, but the Lord saved my life right before they crushed my skull in. So, while, guns, knives, axe handles, and a GE M134 minigun mounted on the pulpit may end all complaints against a bad sermon. Jesus can still calm the storm.
Amen Bro Benincasa
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