Refuting Christian Zionism

[Esaias]

Okay, so I thought about how to approach this, and decided to do it in a 'lesson' format. So far I've got the first two lessons written, I have ten more to go plus two appendices.



I should have it all typed up and proof read in the next couple of days, Lord willing.

It will be Twelve Lessons in Apostolic Eschatology. It will be somewhat light and easy to read and follow (I'm not writing a magnum opus or a doctoral thesis here), and will provide an overview of prophecy up to the Revelation. It will NOT include any kind of indepth analysis of Revelation itself because a foundation has to be laid first, and besides Revelation is a large prophecy that would need a thread (likely multiple threads) of it's own. However, I will touch on certain of the major themes of Revelation, so as not to leave it altogether untouched.

Although I tend to use the term 'historicist' or 'continuous historical' in describing how I understand prophecy, I do want to emphasise that I use those terms for lack of any better term that has any meaning. 'Apostolic Eschatology', or 'Kingdom Eschatology', or 'Christ-centric Eschatology', or 'Biblical Eschatology', or 'Covenant Eschatology', or 'Amazing Prophecies of the Bible!' all sound great but don't actually convey any distinct information. Lots of people use those same terms, and use them to mean very different things. So for now I'm just sticking with 'historical' or some variation of the term, as it expresses my understanding that history is the outworking of prophecy.

It will include some well-meaning challenges to both preterists and futurists, but will be primarily focused on presenting the Bible's own doctrine of prophecy rather than polemics against this or that -ism. I would ask our resident eschatologists, of whatever persuasion, to simply consider, examine, and share. I have always had a feeling that all our -isms are somewhat hand-me-down (whether we realise it or not), and we should be engaged with each other in a search for truth. We all have something to bring to the table, and hopefully none of us are already so full that we can't enjoy the meal.

Malachi 3:16-18 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. (17) And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. (18) Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Okay, so I thought about how to approach this, and decided to do it in a 'lesson' format. So far I've got the first two lessons written, I have ten more to go plus two appendices.



I should have it all typed up and proof read in the next couple of days, Lord willing.

It will be Twelve Lessons in Apostolic Eschatology. It will be somewhat light and easy to read and follow (I'm not writing a magnum opus or a doctoral thesis here), and will provide an overview of prophecy up to the Revelation. It will NOT include any kind of indepth analysis of Revelation itself because a foundation has to be laid first, and besides Revelation is a large prophecy that would need a thread (likely multiple threads) of it's own. However, I will touch on certain of the major themes of Revelation, so as not to leave it altogether untouched.

Although I tend to use the term 'historicist' or 'continuous historical' in describing how I understand prophecy, I do want to emphasise that I use those terms for lack of any better term that has any meaning. 'Apostolic Eschatology', or 'Kingdom Eschatology', or 'Christ-centric Eschatology', or 'Biblical Eschatology', or 'Covenant Eschatology', or 'Amazing Prophecies of the Bible!' all sound great but don't actually convey any distinct information. Lots of people use those same terms, and use them to mean very different things. So for now I'm just sticking with 'historical' or some variation of the term, as it expresses my understanding that history is the outworking of prophecy.

It will include some well-meaning challenges to both preterists and futurists, but will be primarily focused on presenting the Bible's own doctrine of prophecy rather than polemics against this or that -ism. I would ask our resident eschatologists, of whatever persuasion, to simply consider, examine, and share. I have always had a feeling that all our -isms are somewhat hand-me-down (whether we realise it or not), and we should be engaged with each other in a search for truth. We all have something to bring to the table, and hopefully none of us are already so full that we can't enjoy the meal.

Malachi 3:16-18 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. (17) And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. (18) Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

I'm looking forward to reading it

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Okay, so I thought about how to approach this, and decided to do it in a 'lesson' format. So far I've got the first two lessons written, I have ten more to go plus two appendices.



I should have it all typed up and proof read in the next couple of days, Lord willing.

It will be Twelve Lessons in Apostolic Eschatology. It will be somewhat light and easy to read and follow (I'm not writing a magnum opus or a doctoral thesis here), and will provide an overview of prophecy up to the Revelation. It will NOT include any kind of indepth analysis of Revelation itself because a foundation has to be laid first, and besides Revelation is a large prophecy that would need a thread (likely multiple threads) of it's own. However, I will touch on certain of the major themes of Revelation, so as not to leave it altogether untouched.

Although I tend to use the term 'historicist' or 'continuous historical' in describing how I understand prophecy, I do want to emphasise that I use those terms for lack of any better term that has any meaning. 'Apostolic Eschatology', or 'Kingdom Eschatology', or 'Christ-centric Eschatology', or 'Biblical Eschatology', or 'Covenant Eschatology', or 'Amazing Prophecies of the Bible!' all sound great but don't actually convey any distinct information. Lots of people use those same terms, and use them to mean very different things. So for now I'm just sticking with 'historical' or some variation of the term, as it expresses my understanding that history is the outworking of prophecy.

It will include some well-meaning challenges to both preterists and futurists, but will be primarily focused on presenting the Bible's own doctrine of prophecy rather than polemics against this or that -ism. I would ask our resident eschatologists, of whatever persuasion, to simply consider, examine, and share. I have always had a feeling that all our -isms are somewhat hand-me-down (whether we realise it or not), and we should be engaged with each other in a search for truth. We all have something to bring to the table, and hopefully none of us are already so full that we can't enjoy the meal.

Malachi 3:16-18 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. (17) And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. (18) Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Is it on your YouTube?

[jediwill83]

You have a YouTube??????

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Is it on your YouTube?

No, I'm writing it up and will post it to the forum in written form. Probably make a PDF too and include the link.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

You have a YouTube??????

See my signature.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

No, I'm writing it up and will post it to the forum in written form. Probably make a PDF too and include the link.

While you do that why don't you make it into an audio?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What has that got to do with the concept that if Israel won't accept Christ then God will smash them and torture them to win them over? Punishment like that ends in damnation, not salvation. God does not torture people so they will serve Him.

Let that sink in and premillennialism will fly out the window.

Well, I wouldn't put it that way.

Throughout the Old Testament we see God's corrective judgments upon His people. These judgments were designed to bring them to repentance. That is the purpose of the Great Tribulation. Only, the entire world, especially the Jews, are being called to repent and believe on Christ Jesus before it is too late.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What does that have to do with premillennialism?

Anyway, Zionism is political propaganda masquerading as religion. While most futurists are Zionists, not all are. And not all Zionists are futurists.

Rejecting Zionism doesn't automatically leave partial preterism as the only option, either.

Where'd all these crazy ideas come from?

I'm a futurist who rejects Zionism.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Nor all who hold a pro-Israel position Zionists. As a private citizen, and from strictly a geo-political standpoint, I have admiration for the State called Israel. They are the most sane nation in the region IMO. But my eschatology does not hang on their existence.

Good point. While I'm not a Zionist, I have great respect for the Jewish people themselves. My first wife was from a Jewish family. Ruth, her grandmother-in-law, had her tattoo identification number on her arm. She refused to have it removed. Her stories were riveting. In spite of her trials in Nazi Germany, she kept her faith. I found that inspiring. The Jews, as a people, have endured quite a bit.

I have a great love for the Jewish people. But reject Zionism. Believe it or not, some Jews do too.