Christian Persecution increasing

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Baptists, our precious friends the Baptists. lol These guys are so on fire for biblical truth they ran amok in many ways.

Yeah Baptists, right on.

Baptist Church bring a pillow.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yeah Baptists, right on.

Baptist Church bring a pillow.

Lol

[Esaias]

I attended a small house church-sponsored camp meeting years ago down in houston. A bunch of Church of Jesus Christ folks from Tennessee came down, and almost an entire Baptist church from Louisiana, among others. I preached in that camp meeting, exhorting everyone there on the subject of Acts 2:38 salvation and the absolute need to be filled with the Holy Ghost THE BIBLE WAY. The pastor of that Baptist church came up to me and thanked me for being obedient to the Spirit and preaching the truth, because according to him "some of the folks in our church needed to hear this truth from somebody besides me".

After talking with him and the other folks during fellowship it stunned me that there were small, independent "Baptist" churches that believed in the Oneness of God, the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the necessity of receiving the Holy Ghost, tongues and all. As far as their worship and preaching you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and us.

I've come to believe that labels don't mean as much as we often think they do. I've been to "Pentecostal" church meetings that would make a Lutheran fall asleep. And I've seen some Baptist meetings that would put many "Pentecostals" to shame. And yes, such Baptists are usually found in the rural South, the Ozarks, or the Appalachians.

I've learned that "Baptist" doesn't often tell you anything about what they believe, how they worship, or how they live.

Kind of like the label "Pentecostal" nowadays - the sign over the door often doesn't prepare you for what's actually happening inside.

I notice the only label the early church acknowledged was "Christians". The only name they cared about was the name of Jesus Christ. They called each other brethren, disciples, believers. They spoke of their religion as the Way, the Truth, the Life, as holiness, as righteousness, as the Good News. They didn't care about labels, names, or any other of the trappings of denominationalism. They united on the basis of a shared experience, faith, and practice, an experience, faith, and practice they shared with the apostles of Jesus Christ. They were distinguished from others by that same experience, faith, and practice.

To "denominate" is "to give a name to", it is to "create a distinction by means of a named label". The word "heresy" literally means "sect". Too many sects in the city, not enough of the CHURCH in the city.

Amen? Help me out here, y'all. Can I get a witness?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I attended a small house church-sponsored camp meeting years ago down in houston. A bunch of Church of Jesus Christ folks from Tennessee came down, and almost an entire Baptist church from Louisiana, among others. I preached in that camp meeting, exhorting everyone there on the subject of Acts 2:38 salvation and the absolute need to be filled with the Holy Ghost THE BIBLE WAY. The pastor of that Baptist church came up to me and thanked me for being obedient to the Spirit and preaching the truth, because according to him "some of the folks in our church needed to hear this truth from somebody besides me".

After talking with him and the other folks during fellowship it stunned me that there were small, independent "Baptist" churches that believed in the Oneness of God, the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the necessity of receiving the Holy Ghost, tongues and all. As far as their worship and preaching you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and us.

I've come to believe that labels don't mean as much as we often think they do. I've been to "Pentecostal" church meetings that would make a Lutheran fall asleep. And I've seen some Baptist meetings that would put many "Pentecostals" to shame. And yes, such Baptists are usually found in the rural South, the Ozarks, or the Appalachians.

I've learned that "Baptist" doesn't often tell you anything about what they believe, how they worship, or how they live.

Kind of like the label "Pentecostal" nowadays - the sign over the door often doesn't prepare you for what's actually happening inside.

I notice the only label the early church acknowledged was "Christians". The only name they cared about was the name of Jesus Christ. They called each other brethren, disciples, believers. They spoke of their religion as the Way, the Truth, the Life, as holiness, as righteousness, as the Good News. They didn't care about labels, names, or any other of the trappings of denominationalism. They united on the basis of a shared experience, faith, and practice, an experience, faith, and practice they shared with the apostles of Jesus Christ. They were distinguished from others by that same experience, faith, and practice.

To "denominate" is "to give a name to", it is to "create a distinction by means of a named label". The word "heresy" literally means "sect". Too many sects in the city, not enough of the CHURCH in the city.

Amen? Help me out here, y'all. Can I get a witness?

I totally agree with everything you posted. Yet, labels are all we have to indicate what we are talking about. When we say Trinitarians are going to Hell, we don't mean someone who DOESN'T believe in Three SEPARATE individual persons who work together in a unified effort. They are one not in the sense of literal numeral one, but one in unity. That is a Trinitarian. Pentecostal meetings that are as dry as a mummy's pocket? Then they aren't what would be termed as Pentecostal. Labels should define who we are talking about when talking about groups.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Lol

Now please answer my questions?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Where did Jesus or Paul speak about the Roman Catholic Church? Better yet, where can someone without a HISTORY book on ecclesiology learn this teaching?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

JasonB's great man of God, Luther, responsible for inciting pogroms against Anabaptists for being satanic heretics.

Another of his great men of God, Calvin and all the Reformers, responsible for killing practically anyone who didn't agree with their versions of Christianity.

Let's see, Wesley, the guy who taught that if you commit sin you haven't been born again, whose followers (Methodists) are believed to be depraved heretics by the Reformed wing of Jason's great speckled vulture...

What a mess!

Aquila, blasting someone to shreds because they aren't as sweet and loving as he is?

ROFL!

No mean old apostolic ever burnt any professing Christian at the stake. Yet we see the kind of love and tolerance the Big Tent folks have for us. Just like the Big Tent folks of the glorious Reformation, they'd be in line to watch Calvin and Luther and the Puritanicals burn us all alive.

Birds of a feather, and all.

I acknowledged that none of them were perfect. And I also acknowledged that in each movement, we saw them institutionalize and grow cold.

[Aquila]

The way I've heard it is that we have several options on how to view historic Christianity and our relationship to it:

1.) That after doctrinal error and apostasy dominated the historic church NO ONE was saved until the early 1900's when the truth of Oneness Pentecostalism was restored.

2.) That after doctrinal error and apostasy dominated the historic church, there were periodic revivals of Oneness Pentecostal truth. These revivals were met with opposition and were labeled heretical and persecuted. These various revivals were among those such as the Monarchians, Modalists, Montanists, Sebellians, Patripassians, Samosatenes, Aretemonites, Noetians, Marcionites, Albigensians, Paulicians, Cathari, Bogomils, Donatists, Peregrini, Pricillianists, Anabaptists, Waldensians, and others.

3.) That doctrinal error and apostasy dominated through Roman Catholicism, but Spirit filled believers served as a remnant within Catholicism and the subsequent Protestant Reformation, with doctrinal understanding growing and developing until the Oneness Pentecostal revivals of the early 1900's.

Each position has significant problems.

1.) Clearly the notion that the true church was non-existent throughout history until the early 1900's is problematic. If this is true, Hell prevailed against the church for the majority of her history.

2.) While I'd prefer to believe that various revival movements carried the Apostolic truth throughout history, a close examination of the groups typically cited as being "Apostolic" shows that they often had significant doctrinal differences with what we would call "Apostolic" today. Some embraced polygamy, or group marriage, and other manners of life that would be considered "sin" by Apostolic churches today. How can we claim spiritual heritage with groups that differ so widely from one another and ourselves, when these differences were often far more radical of a departure from biblical truth than what we see in the historic churches?

3.) While this view finds our spiritual heritage within the historic churches, it's focus isn't upon "doctrine", but rather the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It claims that God has saved individuals through the Holy Spirit throughout the ages in every church in spite of their doctrinal errors. The problem with this view is that it can be seen as being soft on doctrine, a position wherein the exceptions make the rule.

I think it is important to find what view one holds, because it can strongly affect the way we view other Christians who are not like us or who do not believe as we do.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I totally agree with everything you posted. Yet, labels are all we have to indicate what we are talking about. When we say Trinitarians are going to Hell, we don't mean someone who DOESN'T believe in Three SEPARATE individual persons who work together in a unified effort. They are one not in the sense of literal numeral one, but one in unity. That is a Trinitarian. Pentecostal meetings that are as dry as a mummy's pocket? Then they aren't what would be termed as Pentecostal. Labels should define who we are talking about when talking about groups.

I wonder, if I go to a church that calls itself Pentecostal and it's as dry as a Campbellite meeting, I wonder if I could sue them and force them to at least clap hands and shake a tambourine every now and then?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I wonder, if I go to a church that calls itself Pentecostal and it's as dry as a Campbellite meeting, I wonder if I could sue them and force them to at least clap hands and shake a tambourine every now and then?

How about you go visit a church that calls itself "One God Pentecostal" and it is teaching everyone to learn Hebrew. They teach that there is only One God Yahwah, and He has a son Yahaushua who isn't divine. All must stop using the name Jesus and now must only use the guess word, Yahaushua. The church changes the birth names of congregants to Hebrew names after baptism. Asks everyone to dress in white robes of varying styles. The church tells the congregants that they have to liquidate all personal assets and turn those assets over to the eldership. They all have to live communally as well.

Are they really One God Pennycost?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How about you go visit a church that calls itself "One God Pentecostal" and it is teaching everyone to learn Hebrew. They teach that there is only One God Yahwah, and He has a son Yahaushua who isn't divine. All must stop using the name Jesus and now must only use the guess word, Yahaushua. The church changes the birth names of congregants to Hebrew names after baptism. Asks everyone to dress in white robes of varying styles. The church tells the congregants that they have to liquidate all personal assets and turn those assets over to the eldership. They all have to live communally as well.

Are they really One God Pennycost?

I don't think so.

What is strange is, I know a man who left the UPCI and started a church near me who is all wrapped up in a similar Hebrew focus. No robes, and no liquidation of assets that I'm aware of. But they are always talking Torah, Yeshua, the Hebrew language as the pure tongue of God, festivals, etc.

In my opinion, they are almost cult like. When I was invited, I explained that I'm Scottish, not Hebrew. I was born Scottish, I'll die Scottish. I have no need to walk around pretending to be Jewish. Heck, I'd rather dress up as a vampire on Halloween than live pretending to be Jewish.

Besides, why would I assume God would love me more if I walked around acting like his unfaithful ex-wife?