Power Evangelism, according to Jesus

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Because I just realized that you want me to answer this question.

This is one of the verses that helped me to realize that Jesus Christ, Son of God, could not be the Father.

As I previously read this verse, it sounded to me as if this verse was not speaking of the man, but of the Son of God, as in Deity but I realize at 12:56am that my thinking was flawed concerning this scripture.

This scripture is speaking of human side of Jesus Christ.

I see you edited your post after I responded to the first version. So I will respond to this new version.

Are you saying you used to be oneness but aren't any more? You are now trinitarian? Please clarify. I cannot respond adequately until I know where you're coming from.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I see you edited your post after I responded to the first version. So I will respond to this new version.

Are you saying you used to be oneness but aren't any more? You are now trinitarian? Please clarify. I cannot respond adequately until I know where you're coming from.

Ok.

I used to be a Oneness Pentecostal.
Now, I am not.
However, I had determined to read and respond to the original post as if I was still a Oneness Pentecostal, reading and responding based on how I had been taught, what I had heard, and what I had understood for many years.

So for the sake of this conversation, I am responding as a Oneness Pentecostal who apparently does not remember at all being ever taught that Jesus was operating in the gifts of the Spirit when He ministered, performed miracles, etc.

I admit that the concept of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, merely being a man and just operating in the gifts of the Spirit during His times of ministry and miracles seems strange to me.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Ok.

I used to be a Oneness Pentecostal.
Now, I am not.
However, I had determined to read and respond to the original post as if I was still a Oneness Pentecostal, reading and responding based on how I had been taught, what I had heard, and what I had understood for many years.

So for the sake of this conversation, I am responding as a Oneness Pentecostal who apparently does not remember at all being ever taught that Jesus was operating in the gifts of the Spirit when He ministered, performed miracles, etc.

I admit that the concept of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, merely being a man and just operating in the gifts of the Spirit during His times of ministry and miracles seems strange to me.

Ok. that explains a lot. I was confused since I thought you were still oneness, and yet you said things that were not.

I am as oneness as they get as is Esaias, and we have both indicated we believe Jesus acted as a man operating in the gifts, because He said all the things He did would we do, and greater. There would be nothing He did that we could do if he was not acting as a man operating in the gifts.

Really it doesn't matter if you were taught as a oneness person that He did so. The fact is we're oneness and we see it clearly. Maybe your lack of being taught oneness properly is why you left it to begin with. That's not your fault, though. It's those who taught you oneness.

[mfblume]

PS. I have been oneness for near 40 years. And studied the issue intensely.

Oneness is not necessarily what any given oneness person was taught. If it's truth, there is usually more to it than what most have been taught. This means we can do our own studies and pursue the issue further. I have done that and saw reinforcements behind oneness that I was not taught.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Ok. that explains a lot. I was confused since I thought you were still oneness, and yet you said things that were not.

I am as oneness as they get as is Esaias, and we have both indicated we believe Jesus acted as a man operating in the gifts, because He said all the things He did would we do, and greater. There would be nothing He did that we could do if he was not acting as a man operating in the gifts.

Really it doesn't matter if you were taught as a oneness person that He did so. The fact is we're oneness and we see it clearly. Maybe your lack of being taught oneness properly is why you left it to begin with. That's not your fault, though. It's those who taught you oneness.

What did I say that wasn't Oneness?

[Jermyn Davidson]

I am convinced that due to Jesus being God, He did not need to be guided to Samaria.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Maybe your lack of being taught oneness properly is why you left it to begin with. That's not your fault, though. It's those who taught you oneness.

Please don't do that.

I assure you that any reflection of failure to understand Oneness theology rests squarely with me and not with the great men and women of God who poured themselves into me.

Maybe I have forgotten some stuff.
Maybe I never fully understood some stuff.
But if there is any failure in me, I own it. It is mine.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Okie dokie.

You leave the opportunity open for Jesus Christ, Son of God, to not know who He was going to meet at the well when He clearly stated that He had to go to Samaria.

Your theology presents a man who was anointed but not the Almighty God, in this situation.

Your theology presents a mere, "man that has told me everything I've ever done" when in this situation, He was not operating as an anointed man, but as God.

I disagree with you.

So how do you determine when Jesus is acting as the Son of God, when Jesus is acting as an anointed man, and when He is acting as a normal man?

If I am wrong in my Oneness presumptions, it might be because I have forgotten.

However, I do know what I can remember and I recognize when something doesn't sound right.

*Jesus knew He had to go to Samaria because as God, He knew He had to minister to that woman.

*Jesus knew who He was going to meet in Samaria before He met her.

*Jesus knew all about the woman at the well not because He was operating in one of the gifts of the Spirit, but because He is God.

*Paragraph I and your subsequent posts appear to challenge one or more of the three points above.

sigh.

Well, the thread's been hijacked into a debate about whether or not Jesus actually is a genuine human being. Do you not think it strange that the other oneness folks never saw the 'issues' with my article that you do?

Okay, here we go, one more time.

According to you, Jesus the Son of God is and was omniscient, and could not have 'not known' anything.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

You are refuted by His own declaration.

AS for 'how do you tell when He is acting as Son of God, as an anointed man, and as a normal man?' the question is silly, and here's why. Jesus ALWAYS acted as the Son of God, as an anointed man, and as a 'normal' man - if by 'normal' you mean a genuine, fully human man. He is called 'Son of God' because of the virgin birth, not because He is 'God', but because He was born by the miraculous power of the Holy Ghost:

Luk_1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

He was and is a man, a genuine, complete human being:

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

He was anointed by God with the Holy Ghost and operated in the power of the Spirit:

Act_10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Yet, the 'great mystery' is that He is nevertheless GOD:

Rom_9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

If you weren't clearly taught these things, then you weren't clearly taught Oneness. Either that, or you didn't pay attention.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am convinced that due to Jesus being God, He did not need to be guided to Samaria.

According to your logic, He didn't need to pray, eat, or sleep either.

[Jermyn Davidson]

"Oneness Cap" is off.
I am still thinking about all this.

Did Jesus Christ curse the fig tree as man or as the Son of God?

Did He calm the sea with His voice or did he calm the sea with his voice because he was anointed?

Raise Lazarus?

If your position is that Jesus Christ performed all of his ministry andcmiracles as a man only, then are you saying that the only way He demonstrated Himself to be the Son of God was when He rose from the dead?


This is all still related to Paragraph I.