Sitting under a pastor?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rudy

With the invention of the internet that can reach into remote areas could people be shepherd using this technology I wonder?

What's your take on this?

People who are shepherded simply take direction from a pastor. Os, I think it is possible. But sheep need a fold as well. The shepherd leaves the 99 to bring the sheep to the fold. And a fold is sheep fellowshiping with sheep.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

People who are shepherded simply take direction from a pastor. Os, I think it is possible. But sheep need a fold as well. The shepherd leaves the 99 to bring the sheep to the fold. And a fold is sheep fellowshiping with sheep.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Esaias

CC1 brought this up. He says house churchers are usually people who refuse to submit to sitting under a pastor.

What exactly does that mean? Please explain.

People who obey Heb.13:17 are "sitting under a pastor". Folks that refuse Heb. 13:17 don't "sit under a pastor".

Hope that helps.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

People who obey Heb.13:17 are "sitting under a pastor". Folks that refuse Heb. 13:17 don't "sit under a pastor".

Hope that helps.

Right! That is bible, too!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

People who obey Heb.13:17 are "sitting under a pastor". Folks that refuse Heb. 13:17 don't "sit under a pastor".
Hope that helps.

We must be honest in the interpretation of scripture.

Heb. 13:7, does not speak of a "pastor", but the one(s) who preceded us (received the gospel
before us), and ministered the gospel to us. It is they, if they have been rightly taught how to
"...work the ministry...", that cared for our souls as the NEWBORN BABES we were in Christ!
If they happen to be "pastors", well that's fine, also.

"Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word
of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation."

[Godsdrummer]

Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mat 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat 20:24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

I think too many times we have the wrong idea of what it means to be a leader in the kingdom of God.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Pastors are literally shepherds, and that means sheep must be under the pastor/shepherd, like sheep are under a shepherd. So if there were not any people under the pastor, then there were not pastors like the bible says there were!

If there were pastors, then who were they and who were the sheep who were guided by these shepherds?

Actual sheep are not "under" the shepherd, they are "in" the shepherd's care; the shepherd has very little control over the sheep, nor needs any. It's mostly just provision for a successful life through environmental maneuvering and damage control when or if the sheep gets itself into trouble. In this way, the shepherd inspects, not "oversees".

When it comes to people, to be "under" a shepherd for most, whether it's admitted to or not, comes down to, instead of being "in" their care, it means, being "under" their control. In this way, a shepherd too often "oversees" and rarely "inspects" as the Bible would have them do.

Many shepherds truly care about God's sheep. Rarely do many care for God's sheep. For some, it's a combination of the two.

And for proof, just look at how a disagreement is handled: who by virture of title (i.e. pastor/shepherd) gets their way, and who (the sheep) gets told to shut it or find another church?

All in the name of or for the sake of unity.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Actual sheep are not "under" the shepherd, they are "in" the shepherd's care; the shepherd has very little control over the sheep, nor needs any. It's mostly just provision for a successful life through environmental maneuvering and damage control when or if the sheep gets itself into trouble. In this way, the shepherd inspects, not "oversees".

When it comes to people, to be "under" a shepherd for most, whether it's admitted to or not, comes down to, instead of being "in" their care, it means, being "under" their control. In this way, a shepherd too often "oversees" and rarely "inspects" as the Bible would have them do.

Many shepherds truly care about God's sheep. Rarely do many care for God's sheep. For some, it's a combination of the two.

And for proof, just look at how a disagreement is handled: who by virture of title (i.e. pastor/shepherd) gets their way, and who (the sheep) gets told to shut it or find another church?

All in the name of or for the sake of unity.

This causes many shepherds to stop thinking of themselves as fellow sheep, not only "in" but, in this case, also "under" the care of the Good Shepherd, such that some pastors think of themselves as "under-shepherds" who report directly to Christ while the remainder of their church report to them.

Now, listen, to be fair, this doesn't mean that anyone here who pastors is like this. But to act like this isn't a constant situation all over the movement is sheer blindness. Look at all the people who post here who've been burned and abused by the very situation so many of us have been describing (in this post and elsewhere).

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mat 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat 20:24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

I think too many times we have the wrong idea of what it means to be a leader in the kingdom of God.

Amen. I've done an in-depth word study on not being called masters, as in Matthew 23:10.

If you're interested:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...ption-part-ii/

[votivesoul]

One last thought for the night:

If someone is "sitting under" then, someone else is "standing over".

Is such a thing correct New Covenant teaching?