The Anti-christ IS the "restrainer"?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sean please read my posts.

Michael, I am reading them.
Thats why I posted that one.
I disagree.
I would have to ignore what I posted and get into "advanced" explanation if I agreed with yours bro.

[mfblume]

How could this Be in our future if the first chapter had Paul tell the persecuted Thessalonians in the first century that they will be avenged by JESUS' revelation? To avenge people is to punish the people who persecuted them. And if this is future from our day the the persecutors of the thessalonians would get no punishment at all from JESUS since they're long dead and gone anyway.

.2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That still makes the he who is to be revealed to be the man of sin, not JESUS, in verse 6.

True. But at least it eliminates the silly notion that the restrainer is the church that must first be raptured,etc

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How does this help us proclaim the gospel to the lost? I mean in a practical way?

Everything is not geared to the lost. This is geared to the saved.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Originalist

True. But at least it eliminates the silly notion that the restrainer is the church that must first be raptured,etc

Right... Or the holy ghost being the restrainer,.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Everything is not geared to the lost. This is geared to the saved.

Exactly. People like to play the "how does this help us reach the lost" card when something is being said that makes them question their own beliefs. Just messin with you Sean.

[Sean]

Ya hurt me in a bad kinda way....LOL

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Right... Or the holy ghost being the restrainer,.

That's how I have read it: the Holy Spirit restraining the manifestation of the man of sin.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How could this Be in our future if the first chapter had Paul tell the persecuted Thessalonians in the first century that they will be avenged by JESUS' revelation? To avenge people is to punish the people who persecuted them. And if this is future from our day the the persecutors of the thessalonians would get no punishment at all from JESUS since they're long dead and gone anyway.

.2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

So your alternative is that Jesus was already revealed from Heaven giving rest to his saints. Jesus already came to be glorified in his saints and punished the wicked with eternal destruction.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So your alternative is that Jesus was already revealed from Heaven giving rest to his saints. Jesus already came to be glorified in his saints and punished the wicked with eternal destruction.

Please answer my question. How can Jesus avenge the church Paul wrote to and deal with their persecutors if the vengeance is long after they're dead and gone with no one who persecuted the church there to be able to be dealt with?

Why avoid my question?

Jesus was glorified in the saints by having proved himself right and avenging the church under fire. Don't make all prophecies irrelevant to the people to whom they were written.