Changes within UPC (recent)

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

On 10-10-2011 Bro Eastman said:



So really the UPC gets credit for teaching Oneness and Acts 2:38. Other than that it is a very spiritually starved denomination.

Let me get this straight MTD, yes, I believe the the ones who are going to hell will be destroyed (thus annihilation) but most if not all UPCI preachers do not believe this. I might not have worded what I said correctly. I do disagree with soul sleep however. I hope I cleared that up for you my friend.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Let me get this straight MTD, yes, I believe the the ones who are going to hell will be destroyed (thus annihilation) but most if not all UPCI preachers do not believe this. I might not have worded what I said correctly. I do disagree with soul sleep however. I hope I cleared that up for you my friend.

Ok so you and I are together on annihilation (destruction) of the wicked? Very good PTL!

But you do not see soul sleep? To me they both stand on the fact that the soul is not immortal. Once this is established both turn out to be true

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok so you and I are together on annihilation (destruction) of the wicked? Very good PTL!

But you do not see soul sleep? To me they both stand on the fact that the soul is not immortal. Once this is established both turn out to be true

Help me get this straight: you believe (me too) that the soul that sinneth it shall die; however, you do not believe that the righteous will live forever?

[Lafon]

BrotherEastman & MTD ..... would either or both answer these two question:

In Paul's words of I Thessalonians 5:23 he stated that the "whole man" consists of three elements; "spirit and soul and body." Therefore, which of these three parts of the composite nature of the whole man was created in the image of God, an everlasting Spirit?

Acknowledging that God is "everlasting," that is, eternally existing, then would not that part of the composite nature of the whole man which He created in his image also be immortal?

Is man's body immortal?

Is man's spirit (that is, the breath of life which God places in man's body at his birth) immortal?

If the answer to the final two questions are no, then it would seem to me that the soul is that part of the whole man which God created in His own image, and is therefore immortal just as He is immortal!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Help me get this straight: you believe (me too) that the soul that sinneth it shall die; however, you do not believe that the righteous will live forever?

How could I believe that and be a Christian? Yes Brother the righteous will live forever at the resurrection. The sinners will die in the lake of fire.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Lafon

BrotherEastman & MTD ..... would either or both answer these two question:

In Paul's words of I Thessalonians 5:23 he stated that the "whole man" consists of three elements; "spirit and soul and body." Therefore, which of these three parts of the composite nature of the whole man was created in the image of God, an everlasting Spirit?

Acknowledging that God is "everlasting," that is, eternally existing, then would not that part of the composite nature of the whole man which He created in his image also be immortal?

Is man's body immortal?

Is man's spirit (that is, the breath of life which God places in man's body at his birth) immortal?

If the answer to the final two questions are no, then it would seem to me that the soul is that part of the whole man which God created in His own image, and is therefore immortal just as He is immortal!

Lafon,

Everywhere you look in scripture we see the soul can die. Here is one right off the top of my head.

James 5:19-20


19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The soul needs to be saved from DEATH. If it can die it is not immortal.

[Michael The Disciple]

Man being made in Gods image simply means we look like him. He had a head, arms, legs, eyes and so forth.

Man was not born immortal. Look what God said after man sinned.

Gen. 3:22-23

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

If man were made immortal he would not have had to eat of the tree of life to live for ever.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Let me get this straight MTD, yes, I believe the the ones who are going to hell will be destroyed (thus annihilation) but most if not all UPCI preachers do not believe this. I might not have worded what I said correctly. I do disagree with soul sleep however. I hope I cleared that up for you my friend.

Elder Dave Huston of Carlisle Pa. and Elder Dale Welch of Peshtigo Wis. are UPC Pastors who believe in the annihilation of the wicked.

Pastor Mark Nutting is an ex UPC minister who is now independent that teaches the same.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

How could I believe that and be a Christian? Yes Brother the righteous will live forever at the resurrection. The sinners will die in the lake of fire.

Then why did Jesus tell the thief that was hanging on a tree with Him that he would in the same day be with Jesus in paradise?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Then why did Jesus tell the thief that was hanging on a tree with Him that he would in the same day be with Jesus in paradise?

It sounds like we will have to have another thread dedicated to the topic.

So Jesus and the thief ascended into Heaven that day?

17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17

Jesus did not think they went there that day as three days at least had passed when he said this!