Why all the circles?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

This is the biggest problem in the church today. People are not going to see it until it is too late.
God is only coming for one circle (Scriptural Proof - All believers were together). We have to get on one accord people. I Corinth. 1:10

I John 2:12-14
"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because you have known Him from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one."

So, how many circles do you see? When you see a large family get-together, do the elders generally get in one group and reminisce? And the young adults, do they gather and talk about their future? And the kids, are they playing outside? Do the young adults sometimes join and pass a little time with the elders, and just appreciate and "serve" them; and the children, do they not flock in and out between their parents and grandparents, before going back outside to play? How many large families are in the church? How many circles do you see now?

When all of God's family comes together to worship and honor Him, how many circles do you think our Father sees?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Timmy

But who are your brethren? If circle A believes that you must do/believe X to be a Christian, and circle B doesn't do/believe X, the the people in circle B are all unbelievers. A should not fellowship with B. What fellowship can light have with darkness?

Your in a circle all by yourself, but we nevertheless fellowship with you anyway. lol ooops sorry, marcbee is in your circle; do you fellowship with him,,,,,,,,,bwahahahahaha!

[Originalist]

Speaking as a former AoG minister....



Why is it we refuse to interpret verses like Romans 10:9-10 in light of what Christ taught about discipleship and what the apostles preached in Acts?


Romans 10:9-10 is very similar to Acts 16:30-32.......

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Mark 16:16 is yet another verse in the same family as Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 16:30-31......

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...."

These three passages are almost identical in that they declare that being saved is a result of believing on the Lordship of Christ. But not one of these verses explains what it is that saves us, or what the substance is of the salvation that comes as a result of believing. In the example in Acts 16, it was important to Paul and Silas for that Philippian jailer to understand first of all who Jesus was (as he was most likely a pagan who had never heard of Jesus) and to explain the gospel. Verse 32 declares......

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Many love to claim that we can only build a doctrine of salvation from the epistles and not from the narrative in Acts. But I submit to you that the doctrine of salvation in the epistles is taken directly from Acts. They do not contradict whatsoever.

In Titus 3:5-7 Paul goes in to much more detail as to what the substance is of the salvation he speaks of in Romans 10 and Acts 16.........

He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

How does Paul say God saves us? By washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Ghost. We see this same message preached by the Apostles in Acts. Take for example Acts 5:30-32......

30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.

31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.

32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who OBEY him.”

Here Peter does not preach an "easy believism" message to the hard hearts gathered, but instead a message of believing and OBEYING. The Spirit would only save them by washing of rebirth and renewing if they OBEYED God by repenting and submitting the Lordship of his crucified, risen and exalted Son. The demands of discipleship were laid out plainly by Christ and here we see the apostles declaring that God demands obedience for salvation.

There is never a "salvation lite" message preached by the apostles in Acts, nor is one taught by them in the epistles. Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 16:30-31 must be interpreted in light of all of this. Just as Peter declares in 5:30-32, Paul is declaring to Israel in Romans 10:9-10 that they too can be "saved by washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Ghost" if they will believe on and submit to that crucified, risen and exalted Son of God.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Speaking as a former AoG minister....
Why is it we refuse to interpret verses like Romans 10:9-10 in light of what Christ taught about discipleship and what the apostles preached in Acts?
Romans 10:9-10 is very similar to Acts 16:30-32.......
Mark 16:16 is yet another verse in the same family as Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 16:30-31......
These three passages are almost identical in that they declare that being saved is a result of believing on the Lordship of Christ. But not one of these verses explains what it is that saves us, or what the substance is of the salvation that comes as a result of believing. In the example in Acts 16, it was important to Paul and Silas for that Philippian jailer to understand first of all who Jesus was (as he was most likely a pagan who had never heard of Jesus) and to explain the gospel. Verse 32 declares......
Many love to claim that we can only build a doctrine of salvation from the epistles and not from the narrative in Acts. But I submit to you that the doctrine of salvation in the epistles is taken directly from Acts. They do not contradict whatsoever.
In Titus 3:5-7 Paul goes in to much more detail as to what the substance is of the salvation he speaks of in Romans 10 and Acts 16.........
How does Paul say God saves us? By washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Ghost. We see this same message preached by the Apostles in Acts. Take for example Acts 5:30-32......
Here Peter does not preach an "easy believism" message to the hard hearts gathered, but instead a message of believing and OBEYING. The Spirit would only save them by washing of rebirth and renewing if they OBEYED God by repenting and submitting the Lordship of his crucified, risen and exalted Son. The demands of discipleship were laid out plainly by Christ and here we see the apostles declaring that God demands obedience for salvation.
There is never a "salvation lite" message preached by the apostles in Acts, nor is one taught by them in the epistles. Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 16:30-31 must be interpreted in light of all of this. Just as Peter declares in 5:30-32, Paul is declaring to Israel in Romans 10:9-10 that they too can be "saved by washing of rebirth and renewing of the Holy Ghost" if they will believe on and submit to that crucified, risen and exalted Son of God.

Very good, Beloved.
Salvation is for everyone: but not everyone is for salvation.
People will believe what they hear; unfortunately, not everything they hear is expedient to salvation.

The problem lies in John 3:3__"Except a man be born again, he cannot see...". The gospel is based in the kingdom of God, and men cannot see it because another "gospel" has been placed to detract them from the truth.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I John 2:12-14
"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because you have known Him from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one."

So, how many circles do you see? When you see a large family get-together, do the elders generally get in one group and reminisce? And the young adults, do they gather and talk about their future? And the kids, are they playing outside? Do the young adults sometimes join and pass a little time with the elders, and just appreciate and "serve" them; and the children, do they not flock in and out between their parents and grandparents, before going back outside to play? How many large families are in the church? How many circles do you see now?

1. A family that is together.

Originally Posted by thephnxman

When all of God's family comes together to worship and honor Him, how many circles do you think our Father sees?

1. The church. When the bible uses the word "together" it means what 1 Corith 1:10 says "together in the same mind and in the same judgment". We can be physically apart but together because we all have the same mind and judgement.

You should be able to go into any apostolic church in the world and hear the same thing, the same sound doctrine. But do you? No.

If anyone feels we are together as one church, this Sunday ask your pastor to fellowship with the closest Apostolic church to them. Let me know what he says.

I asked a question on AFF about fellow shipping with other apostolic churches and I got 0 responses. Crickets.

We are not together. Unsaved people see this and no wonder they look to other faiths.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

1. A family that is together.
1. The church. When the bible uses the word "together" it means what 1 Corith 1:10 says "together in the same mind and in the same judgment". We can be physically apart but together because we all have the same mind and judgement.
You should be able to go into any apostolic church in the world and hear the same thing, the same sound doctrine. But do you? No.
If anyone feels we are together as one church, this Sunday ask your pastor to fellowship with the closest Apostolic church to them. Let me know what he says.
I asked a question on AFF about fellow shipping with other apostolic churches and I got 0 responses. Crickets.
We are not together. Unsaved people see this and no wonder they look to other faiths.

Sad, but true.

[Esphes45]

You know what is also sad? People don't even care. As long as they can plop, pray and praise on Sundays they could care less. Remember, God is not the author of confusion.

Mark 3:25

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

You know what is also sad? People don't even care. As long as they can plop, pray and praise on Sundays they could care less. Remember, God is not the author of confusion.
Mark 3:25

RIGHT! "God is not the author of confusion." That's why all we can do is pray, preach, and teach until "...we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God..."; remembering that the only way anyone will believe is through the preaching of His word.

[Esaias]

This thread is going in circles.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This thread is going in circles.

If we looked really close, we'd see all threads coming around full circle!