The REAL problem with Islam

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Yes, it was.

So then we agree, the Quran contradicts Jesus and the Apostles teaching in the bible?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

a single major Christian organization in the world that would embrace the evil the you present

Christians embrace the same values that Muslims embrace and it is you who are being dishonest with me and it is you who are pretending to be something that you are not.

In 1778, Thomas Jefferson wrote a law in Virginia which contained a punishment of castration for men who engage in sodomy, however, what was intended by Jefferson as a liberalization of the sodomy laws in Virginia at that time was rejected by the Virginia Legislature, which continued to prescribe death as the maximum penalty for the crime of sodomy in that state.

This law imposing the death penalty for sodomy in the state of Virginia was a christian based law and it was based on the bible.

Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labor.
The sodomy laws in every single state prior to those free love days of the 60's were christian based laws and they were based on the bible.



I did not otherwise condemn anything. I am quite aware that the current christian church, having been smacked down by secular society (probably due to their long, long history of misdeeds and so much for that "gates of hell" thing huh), now engage in a game among themselves to beat their own chests in a contest as to who is more tolerant of sin. Tolerance after all invites membership and membership brings funding.

So if they/you can make EVERYONE (no matter what the bible actually says about their hobbies or activities) feel good about themselves then they/you can maximize their/your collections - which allow them/you to be able to afford to move your churches as far away from the poor as possible.

You will, I believe, find that laws in Muslim countries widely vary indicating that they lean to political, rather than religious, in nature.

Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, and Yemen retain the death penalty for homosexuality. This is 28% of the world's Muslim population.
Indonesia (excepting 1 province), Iraq, and Turkey do not prohibit/are tolerant of homosexuality. This is 24% of the world's Muslim population
The remaining countries have varying punishments ranging to imprisonment (mostly) to fines (a few).

A summary:

In Egypt the penalty is prison
In Indonesia homosexuality is tolerated everywhere except the Aceh province
and in Aceh the penalty is a fine and/or prison
In Iraq homosexuality is tolerated
In Malaysia the penalty is a fine and prison
In Nigeria the penalty is prison
In Pakistan the penalty is prison
In Turkey homosexuality is tolerated
In Uzbekistan the penalty is prison
In Bangledesh the penalty is prison

Many of these countries turn a blind I when gays are killed, or women are killed by family members, or mutilated.

Now I sense that you support these actions.

[Antipas]

Every religion has a tendency to become arrogant.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Walks_In_Islam, may I ask... you are Muslim, correct?

Do you identify with any particular branch of Islam? sunni, shia, ahmadiyya, wahabbi, etc?

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[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

bump

Us?

We practice Sunni Islam and would probably be considered to follow what is referred to as Shafii, which is deference to (1) the Quran followed by (2) Hadith or teachings of the Prophet himself

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Many of these countries turn a blind I when gays are killed, or women are killed by family members, or mutilated.

Now I sense that you support these actions.

You are quite welcome to sense that I support the rights of those people in those countries and in our own country to determine what is right or wrong, pass laws, and enforce those laws accordingly.

Short self-defense I do not believe you will ever find an example where I otherwise supported taking the law into one's own hands and self-defense is currently within the law anyway, at least in Texas LOL.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So then we agree, the Quran contradicts Jesus and the Apostles teaching in the bible?

The Bible contradicts itself on this issue Prax. There are (4) completely different stories.

The Quran says none of them are true.

Mark paints a picture of a mortal man afraid of death, not the Son Of God (who after all, according to Christian teaching was sent to Earth in order to die for our sins). In the Garden, according to Mark, Jesus begs that the cup of suffering passes him by. Why would the Son of God do this? Surely he knew this was inevitable and the whole point of mission. Instead it sounds like a scared human, hoping to save his life. In the description given, he has no control over the events that are happening. Unlike the other Gospels, Mark does not mention the story of Barabbas or the fate of Judas. At his trial he is silent and does not answer questions. Most interestingly of all, according to Mark, Jesus’ final words were “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?” These are not the words of the son of God sent to die, rather someone begging for God to save him. He sounds like a man whose beliefs are shattered. This does not square with the claim that Jesus foresaw his crucifixion, if anything it looks like it wasn’t part of his plan.

Matthew tells a very similar story with only minor differences. When arrested Jesus claims he could have asked an army of angels to save him, which seems like false bravado as moments earlier he had been begging that to avoid suffering. This time he has slightly more control over the situation. Matthew adds the story of Judas and Barabbas (including a line that was used for generations to justify ant-Semitism). Matthew does make the absurd claim that when Jesus died, there was an earthquake and the dead came back to life, but waited until the resurrection before rising and appearing before many. He doesn’t record what happens after this (nor does any other writer either in the Bible or elsewhere). You would think people would notice a zombie apocalypse and record it, but apparently not. For some reason it’s not worth mentioning what happens to the zombies afterwards. If they also rose from the dead what makes Jesus so special?

Luke tells a similar story but also adds details to make Jesus more confident and in control. In his version Jesus sweats blood and an angel appears to give him strength (you would think the other Gospel writers would have noticed this and mentioned it but apparently not). Unlike in Mark and Matthew the disciples do not flee when Jesus is arrested. Luke does not have any of the Romans mocking Jesus, even one of the criminals agrees with him.

John’s account is the most different. He does not mention Jesus praying and questioning God in Gethsemane or his disciples falling asleep. Instead he is prepared for Judas and the soldiers already knowing what they will do. He is in complete control of the situation to the point where the soldiers are afraid to arrest him. In contrast to the other three accounts (which say he was silent) John describes Jesus giving confident and assured answers at his trial.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You are quite welcome to sense that I support the rights of those people in those countries and in our own country to determine what is right or wrong, pass laws, and enforce those laws accordingly.

Short self-defense I do not believe you will ever find an example where I otherwise supported taking the law into one's own hands and self-defense is currently within the law anyway, at least in Texas LOL.

"Honor" killing????

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by crakjak

"Honor" killing????

If I am not mistaken that is not a specifically Islamic thing, but common to certain cultures.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by crakjak

"Honor" killing????

You actually believe there is a nation on the planet that has laws outlining requirements for "honor killing?"

Honor killings are common in Brazil (catholic), India (Hindu), and MENA (Muslim). It does not appear that "saving face" or the motive of pride is limited to one culture or religion.