Universal Salvation

[Steve Epley]

Hitler-Speck-the serial killers-mass murderers-will all be saved.

The terms judgment-wrath-punishment-destruction-Hell-lake of fire-hell fire-outer darkness-death mean nothing to this heresy.

ETERNAL judgment a principle of the doctrine of Christ is negated.

The words of Jesus in RED are reduced to meaningless drivel.

This Santa Claus gospel where everyone is rewarded and their works of evil have little or no consequence is a cover for those who hide their own sins and sear their conscience.

The doctrine is so foolish and unscriptural I have NO desire to waste my time posting verses to those who really do not care.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If what you believe is the truth then you don't need to embelish it or help it along.

That is my point. A UR man I know claims that we must strive to serve God right now, and learn all we can in order to be led of the Spirit, but in an age ahead of our own, God will redeem everything and everyone ever lost, including devils. So we posed to him this note: If this is the case, and we still have to strive to serve God, then all this is useless information. I think it diverts people away from the more important issues. Philosophizing and theorizing and wondering about things that have nothing to do with our duty now is a great tool of the enemy, I think.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

If you read into Chapter 22, verse 15, there are sinners outside the gate, so sinners are still around. The Rev. 22:17 the Spirit and the bride are still calling all who thirst, all who desire, "Come!" Salvation is still in operation. This is after the Great White judgment, and after the New Jerusalem has appeared. This call shows the "Bride" participating in this call to salvation.

I don't believe it is a free entry, those that come at this time will be refined by the refiners fire, (Mal.3.3)

But John is given words that apply to his then-present time. Come now.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

To the contrary, the doctrine of endless torment has turned multitudes from God, because by it very nature blasphemes the character of our Heavenly Father. Let's start with the simplicity of (1 Cor. 13.8) LOVE NEVER FAILS,

When a conqueror conquers a nation, and some who resist end up suffering and dying, that does not mean the conqueror failed. He succeeded in conquering. Similarly, just because some souls are damned, that does not mean Christ failed.

"The teaching of endless torment, negatively effects the preaching of the gospel, "eternal" hell...

Maligns God's character before the world.
Contradicts His unending and unfailing love for all people.
Makes our worship stem from fear instead of true affection.
Denies His unlimited power to accomplish His will.
Makes man's will greater than God's will.
Infinitely minimizes Jesus' triumph over Satan.
Denies Jesus fully accomplished His mission on earth.
Negates the most glorious promises in the Bible.
Ignores the testimony of the early church.
Rob us of peace and joy.
AFFECTS WHAT WE BECOME; LIKE FATHER--LIKE SON.
Hinders world evangelism.

The bottom line is there is no clear statement about any of this sort of thing in the bible. We can REASON anything away. But to take a verse that says love never fails and to ride on it to such extreme extents that have nothing to do with the context in which the verse was written, such as no one winding up lost, is beyond reason.

The catholics reasoned and reasoned until they came up with all sorts of concoted doctrines, like real presence and Mariolatry. Meanwhile the bible never plainly says those things. I really think it is a diverting doctrine taht sways one away from the practical here and now needs.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Annihilation is much more merciful and would be the human way out, as if God is saying, "I can't fix what what I created, I have been defeated by Satan and by the all powerful will of man, so I"ll just kill them all."

Malachi 3:3, declares that He is the refiners fire and the launderers soap.

I am not annihilationist, but I think your reasoning is wrong, too. There are two extremes--- Calvinism and Universal Salvation. Both are at either end of the spectrum, and both are never plainly stated anywhere in scripture if either was true. Hence, a weird situation, if either were true.

God is not defeated by someone's choice. It's up to each of us to choose. It is all a joke if the actuality is that we can choose this day life or death, if in reality neither chose wrong in the end.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Thad

Wow!!!!! I did not know that ANYONE on this forum believed in universal reconciliation!!

Does crakjak go to carlton Pearson's church ???


that's the junk he believes in The muslins are saved, the hindus saved, Buddah's all good, the homosexuals are going to heaven no problem AND even the Devil will be saved ! ! !

Now you are on my bad list, and I thought we had made up!

Great response, instead of any substantive refutation, just attack and throw out innuendos.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Hitler-Speck-the serial killers-mass murderers-will all be saved.

The terms judgment-wrath-punishment-destruction-Hell-lake of fire-hell fire-outer darkness-death mean nothing to this heresy.

ETERNAL judgment a principle of the doctrine of Christ is negated.

The words of Jesus in RED are reduced to meaningless drivel.

This Santa Claus gospel where everyone is rewarded and their works of evil have little or no consequence is a cover for those who hide their own sins and sear their conscience.

The doctrine is so foolish and unscriptural I have NO desire to waste my time posting verses to those who really do not care.

How could someone who believes God eternally tortures someone for facial hair, short sleeves, cut hair and wearing jewelry, possibility embrace the idea that an all loving, all powerful, all knowing, Creator, Heavenly Father could love His creation enough to have a plan to finally correct, purge, and redeem all that He has made. Just doesn't make sense does it?

I take personal exception to your accusation that what I believe is a cover to hide my sin, you throw out such absurd lies like a drunken sailor. My embracing of the truth of God's purpose to finally purify all, has created in me a respect for Him the I could never have believing in the traditional view of hell, and increased my faith in the gospel to save those around me. Don't forget UR doesn't give a free pass to those that persist in practicing sin, as you so grossly misrepresent.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is my point. A UR man I know claims that we must strive to serve God right now, and learn all we can in order to be led of the Spirit, but in an age ahead of our own, God will redeem everything and everyone ever lost, including devils. So we posed to him this note: If this is the case, and we still have to strive to serve God, then all this is useless information. I think it diverts people away from the more important issues. Philosophizing and theorizing and wondering about things that have nothing to do with our duty now is a great tool of the enemy, I think.

Consider that every person MUST go thru the process of purification, and the more sin, dross and chaff that is allow to attach itself to a person the more fire it will take to effect a final purification. So the good news of the gospel is the "ministry of reconciliation", we have been reconciled to God so why persist in sin that will just make the process harder and more unpleasant?

This process is easily observable even in this life, the more junk a person allows in their physical life be it, overeating, unhealthy physical lifestyles, sexual perversion makes it very hard to be restored to a healthy and satisfying life even when the person is born again. So don't be self destructive be reconciliated to God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Consider that every person MUST go thru the process of purification, and the more sin, dross and chaff that is allow to attach itself to a person the more fire it will take to effect a final purification. So the good news of the gospel is the "ministry of reconciliation", we have been reconciled to God so why persist in sin that will just make the process harder and more unpleasant?

This process is easily observable even in this life, the more junk a person allows in their physical life be it, overeating, unhealthy physical lifestyles, sexual perversion makes it very hard to be restored to a healthy and satisfying life even when the person is born again. So don't be self destructive be reconciliated to God.

What has that got to do with my need to yield to the Spirit right now, in practical living, and my need to walk in the Spirit? I think the entire issue UR's are trying to make is how God is perceived. I think God is more concerned with our need to become more spiritual, and less carnal, since THAT is practical. UR is not practical.

I am currently walking in covenant relationship with Jesus Christ, so... I am universally saved.