You must understand that other denominations consider themselves to be "Apostolic". Even the Catholic Church considers themselves to be "apostolic", although not in the AFF's definition of Apostolic realm. So you are going to have all sorts of people reading what is written here. It is the internet after all.
When I signed on I read the affirmation statement that declared this to be a Oneness Pentecostal site. The assumption then is that it stated what was meant. Yes this is the internet and it is a Oneness Apostolic site on the internet.
Sometimes "the ministry" are the wolves in sheep's clothing. Sometimes 'the ministry' comes in Jesus Name and deceives many. That is evident by the many thread titles here discussing the moral failures of certain churches. The ministry is not set apart like they want people to think that they are. Sometimes it is the ministry that leads the sheep into poisonous weeds.
And just so you won't accuse me of including all the ministry in these words, I will go on record here to say that it is a tiny fraction of the ministry that does the above. But that tiny fraction can spoil a many vine.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]So why make it sound like all of the ministry is morally bankrupt? Have there been abuses? Of course and I will not defend the error of men. Neither will I seek to destroy a fallen leader or a fallen saint. I will seek to edify not destroy.
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Condemn the ministry?
Where did I condemn the ministry in my post? It's not a condemnation, it's an observation. But you wouldn't say the same if it was the ministry who pointed out what I just did would you?
Am I bitter? I certainly hope not. I spent many hours in prayer asking God to help me to overcome many of the nasty, self-righteous things that were said and done to me by oneness pentecostals...clergy and saint alike. I ask God to help me overcome the brainwashing unbiblical statements that some pastors tried to instill instead of God's pure and unadulterated Word. I ask God to help me to forgive the spiritual abuse heaped upon me. I ask God to help me to overcome the shunning that many UPC members do when you do not agree with the general consensus of that church system, or even not agreeing with some people's personal views of certain life circumstances.
If I sound bitter, then I ask God to help me to describe what took place while I was in that system without sounding bitter.
But I feel that no matter what way I describe it, there will always be a pliny out there who will make accusations of bitterness.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]Here is the post you referenced but apparently did not read:
Originally Posted by Pliny
How do you know what other people are doing to reach the lost? This makes you
sound bitter and no
I am not saying you are because I do not know you. Yet this post
appears bitter. You condemn the ministry for what you think is wrong but don't know the level of burden the ministry carries.
Hmmm... Perhaps you should reread what I posted.
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Please forgive me if I do not sound happy at all the chaos OP churches inserted into my life.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I cannot answer to any of this because I do not know any of the circumstances. I have seen people hurt because of "ministers" and I have seen people accuse ministers of things found only in the imagination of the accuser. I cannot know nor do I want to know the circumstances here. It is frankly time to move on.
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The ministry feels the weight because they want control instead of taking on the yoke of Christ and letting Christ be in control of His church.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]This is a blanket statement which reflects bitterness IMO. I feel a weight no saint can ever understand and I am no dictator so be careful how you make blanket statements.[/COLOR]
...besides that, some in the ministry bite the sheep they are supposed to feed. The difference between Jesus and some of todays pastor's is that Jesus left the 99 to find the one lost. Some pastors today stay with the 99 and let the lost ones die. Some even kick them out of their church buildings. Seen it happen but don't say I am condemning all the ministry because of what a few have done.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I will not defend this and I have heard of things like this. That does not change the word of God. [/COLOR]
While I never joined or posted on any "trinitarian forums", I will never back off of the truth of what happened in my life whether it is my testimony of God's truth and what He has done in my life or if it is the truth of what kind of treatment I received from the ministry or from other leadership. Whether it is abuse or loving fellowship...I always will speak the truth about what happened to me while I was in the Oneness organized church system. If the ministry has a problem with that or feels condemnation, then maybe they ought to take a second look at their methods.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]Or perhaps I will just pray that you can somehow get over past hurts and recognize that the church is full of problems because the church is full of people. How does reliving these past hurts move anyone towards a closer walk with God? Let everything be done to the edification of the body.
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Do you read anything where I have spewed vitriol about the truth? No, I have posted my heart about the actions of some ministers. Their actions did not dilute the truth of Jesus Name baptism in my life. But they have reaped an honest critique from me and that I am entitled to.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]Again you did not read what you quoted from:
Originally Posted by Pliny
You may want to back off a bit on the condemnation of the ministry. I have been on Trinitarian forums and I can attest to
the hatred and vitriol spewed forth from them concerning this truth. An alcoholic must first recognize he needs help before he asks for help. Trinitarian's need to know they are not born again.
The vitriol is from the Trinitarian's on the Trinitarian boards I have been on. You have again taken something personal that was not spoken to you or against you. This again makes it
appear as bitterness.[/COLOR]
I've seen the ministry all too often label someone who has been hurt by them as "bitter" or not "submissive" or "obedient" to them.
My friend, those are simple answers to someone else's plight. They have no clue.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]I have seen the good the bad and the ugly on both sides of the fence. I will not defend either neither will I dwell on it. I will continue to seek to edify not destroy.[/COLOR]
Did you ever read where Jesus hit the sheep with a two-by-four to get them to wake up? I've never seen anybody wake up after being hit with a two-by-four. They were knocked out into a coma and did not hear anything being said to them because ....after all they were hit hard and were knocked out.
Jesus spoke harsh truth to the spiritual leadership in His day....they did not "wake up".
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]Yes actually I have. the woman at the well who was told she was an adulterer.
Then there was the rich man who was told to give away everything.
Then there were the pharisees of whom was Nicodemus. I am sure he heard the stories if he was not among the vipers that day. I could go on but you probably will not accept it.[/COLOR]
Agreed. We should all stand for and earnestly contend for the faith...in Jesus Christ. Trinitarians believe Christ is God incarnate too.
[COLOR="rgb(139, 0, 0)"]But they deny the "man" and turn him into a lifeless carcass animated by deity jr. This is not the God of
Deu. 6:4. [/COLOR]
All these things you mention have been and continue to be discussed right here on these forums. According to some, adultery is ok to be discussed as long as we are not discussing a member of the ministry caught in the act.
This speaking the truth 'in love' ...sometimes others don't realize that they come off as hateful instead of loving also.
Just sayin.
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