I Found the Source of Irrational Fear of God

Originally Posted by crakjak

I believe Coop is saying that we should focus on the "whole point of Calvary", the love that God showed at Calvary reflects the depth of priority He has place on humanity.

He will go to great lengths to accomplish His purpose, and neither the wimpy efforts of a fallen angel nor the highly exalted "freewill" of man will deter Him.

I agree in part here.
But, consider if you will: the gruesome aspect of Calvary was such that it also shows how God feels about sin in that it should convey fear to the heart of man. It shows that God is comepletely against sin so much that He would offer up Himself in the most painful way imagineable so that we could see that sin is destructive.
Further, we have no idea of what hell will truly be like. We can only guess at the agony.
Doesn't the Bible teach that some will be saved by fear? Fear of waht?
Maybe it is a fear of standing in front of a loving God and having to realize that our righteousness just isn't adequate to save us and to see the results of our sins displayed in front of us.
Fear of hearing the words "Depart for I never knew you" all the while thinking "Wait, I've been baptized in Jesus' name, filled with the Holy Ghost, fed the poor, dones great works..."
According to the Bible, 50% of the virgins did not make it. I think this speaks volumes about today's church.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
NKJV




ARPH

Revelation is full of hyperbolic language. Rev. 1.1, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave His servants--things which must SHORTLY take place. And He sent and SIGNIFIED it by His angel to His servant John..."

Does "shortly" mean some two thousand plus years later? "Signified" means to be revealed by symbols pointing to spiritual realities.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Revelation is full of hyperbolic language. Rev. 1.1, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave His servants--things which must SHORTLY take place. And He sent and SIGNIFIED it by His angel to His servant John..."

Does "shortly" mean some two thousand plus years later? "Signified" means to be revealed by symbols pointing to spiritual realities.

BUT does that mean there is not an eternal end to the wicked? The issue is not "will they suffer a burning torment of fire for ever"..you started this thread on the idea of threats with hell when in fact the bible is FULL of warnings of hell. You can call them threats to tie an negative emotion to them if you want, but that does not change reality...facts.

Perhaps you can give you take on what that verse means where they are all thrown into the lake o fire and the smoke of their torment ascended "forever and ever"

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BUT does that mean there is not an eternal end to the wicked? The issue is not "will they suffer a burning torment of fire for ever"..you started this thread on the idea of threats with hell when in fact the bible is FULL of warnings of hell. You can call them threats to tie an negative emotion to them if you want, but that does not change reality...facts.

Perhaps you can give you take on what that verse means where they are all thrown into the lake o fire and the smoke of their torment ascended "forever and ever"

In reference to the Greek word, aion." It is mostly translated "forever", "everlasting," and "eternal" in the KJV". However, some translations read "age-abiding," "age-during", or "eon." "Robert Young, author of the highly respected Young's Analytical Concordance, in his literal translation of the Bible, always translated it 'age' and never once as 'everlasting', or 'eternal." Gerry Beauchemin in "Hope beyond Hell"

I believe "every man's work will be tested by fire" some are tested in this life and if their work proves to be gold or silver they will enter into "the life of God" (eternal or God's life)if not yet pure they will enter into the "chastisement of God" (God's chasetisement or eternal punishment) The chastisement of God may last for an age or more than one age, until they enter into the "life of God" or eternal life. The chastisement of God is not literal fire, rather a process of purging, or a corrective process, it may be harsh and give off "smoke" as all chaff and dross is "burned" off.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BUT does that mean there is not an eternal end to the wicked? The issue is not "will they suffer a burning torment of fire for ever"..you started this thread on the idea of threats with hell when in fact the bible is FULL of warnings of hell. You can call them threats to tie an negative emotion to them if you want, but that does not change reality...facts.

Perhaps you can give you take on what that verse means where they are all thrown into the lake o fire and the smoke of their torment ascended "forever and ever"

Page 27, "Hope Beyond Hell" Gerry Beauchemin:

"Matthew 25.46 contains an additional clue confirming the temporary nature of God's judgment. The Greek word, translated 'punishment,' is kolasis. William Barclay, world-renowned Greek scholar, translator, and author of the popular Bible commentary, The Daily Study Bible and New Testament Words, notes:

"The Greek word for punishment here [Mt. 25.46] is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the PRUNING of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but REMEDIAL punishment."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

In reference to the Greek word, aion." It is mostly translated "forever", "everlasting," and "eternal" in the KJV". However, some translations read "age-abiding," "age-during", or "eon." "Robert Young, author of the highly respected Young's Analytical Concordance, in his literal translation of the Bible, always translated it 'age' and never once as 'everlasting', or 'eternal." Gerry Beauchemin in "Hope beyond Hell"

Do you also believe what you believe is true of the devil?
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

Are the following temporary?
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honor and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth forever and ever,

Zodhaites says
(3) The phrase eis toús aiṓnas tṓn aiṓnōn, unto the ages of the ages, being an intens. form meaning forever and ever (2Ti_4:18; Heb_13:21; 1Pe_4:11; Rev_1:6, Rev_1:18; Rev_4:9-10; Rev_5:13; Rev_7:12; Rev_10:6; Rev_11:15; Rev_15:7; Rev_19:3; Rev_20:10; Rev_22:5). Spoken of God (Gal_1:5; Phi_4:20; 1Ti_1:17; 1Pe_5:11). Without the art. eis aiṓnas aiṓnōn, unto the ages of the ages (Rev_14:11). Also in the expression eis pásas tás geneás toú aiṓnos tṓn aiṓnōn (pása, the fem. pl. of pás [G3956], every, all; geneás [the acc. pl. of geneá {G1074}, generation]) as in Eph_3:21 meaning throughout all ages and literally unto all generations of the age of the ages. Spoken of Christ (2Pe_3:18; Rev_1:18; Rev_5:13; Rev_11:15); of the blessedness of the saints (Rev_22:5); of the punishment of the wicked (Rev_14:11; Rev_19:3; Rev_20:10). In the Sept. the phrase eis aiṓna aiṓnos, literally means unto the age of the age (Psa_19:9; Psa_110:3, Psa_110:10).

If this word is translated age or world, then the fact that there are two of them means from age to age...that does not sound like an ending in sight to me

ISBE
In the New Testament, aiōn and aiōnios are often used with the meaning “eternal,” in the predominant sense of futurity. The word aiōn primarily signifies time, in the sense of age or generation; it also comes to denote all that exists under time-conditions; and, finally, superimposed upon the temporal is an ethical use, relative to the world's course. Thus aiōn may be said to mean the subtle informing spirit of the world or cosmos - the totality of things. By Plato, in his Timaeus, aiōn was used of the eternal Being, whose counterpart, in the sense-world, is Time. To Aristotle, in speaking of the world, aiōn is the ultimate principle which, in itself, sums up all existence. In the New Testament, aiōn is found combined with prepositions in nearly three score and ten instances, where the idea of unlimited duration appears to be meant. This is the usual method of expressing eternity in the Septuagint also. The aiōnios of 2Co_4:18 must be eternal, in a temporal use or reference, else the antithesis would be gone.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Page 27, "Hope Beyond Hell" Gerry Beauchemin:

"Matthew 25.46 contains an additional clue confirming the temporary nature of God's judgment. The Greek word, translated 'punishment,' is kolasis. William Barclay, world-renowned Greek scholar, translator, and author of the popular Bible commentary, The Daily Study Bible and New Testament Words, notes:

"The Greek word for punishment here [Mt. 25.46] is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the PRUNING of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but REMEDIAL punishment."

Zodhaites
kólasis; gen. koláseōs, fem. noun from kolázō (G2849), to punish. Punishment (Mat_25:46), torment (1Jo_4:18), distinguished from timōría (G5098), punishment, which in Class. Gr. has the predominating thought of the vindictive character of the punishment which satisfies the inflicter's sense of outraged justice in defending his own honor or that of the violated law. Kólasis, on the other hand, conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender. It does not always, however, have this strict meaning in the NT.

In Mat_25:46, kólasis aiṓnios (G166), eternal, does not refer to temporary corrective punishment and discipline, but has rather the meaning of timōría, punishment because of the violation of the eternal law of God. It is equivalent to géenna (G1067), hell, a final punishment about which offenders are warned by our Lord (Mar_9:43-48). In this sense it does not have the implication of bettering one who endures such punishment. In kólasis, we have the relationship of the punishment to the one being punished while in timōría the relationship is to the punisher himself.
Syn.: ekdíkēsis (G1557), vengeance; epitimía (G2009), penalty; díkē (G1349), the execution of a sentence.
Ant.: áphesis (G859), forgiveness, dismissal, release; apolútrōsis (G629), redemption, deliverance; páresis (G3929), a passing by of death or sin.

I'm completely in stagnant awe, as seems I've registered into a carnal/spiritual battle between current and former UPCI congregants, and unsurprisingly encountered various anti-standard post.

To the ex-UPCI congregants (prodigals), I've read how liberation from UPCI
has brought unsurpassed delight, and freedom from its teachings, standards, and so-forth.
Analyzing certain post, I can only conjure the following thought. While your physical body remains unbound to any UPCI building's structure, your mind envisages reality, there is no liberation. Ranter my friend, confess freedom of spirit, liberation of our teachings, knowing within you're wretched and desiring truth.

I'm free saith one, to which the other party responded, why continue discussing its teaching and standards if free?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Zodhaites
kólasis; gen. koláseōs, fem. noun from kolázō (G2849), to punish. Punishment (Mat_25:46), torment (1Jo_4:18), distinguished from timōría (G5098), punishment, which in Class. Gr. has the predominating thought of the vindictive character of the punishment which satisfies the inflicter's sense of outraged justice in defending his own honor or that of the violated law. Kólasis, on the other hand, conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender. It does not always, however, have this strict meaning in the NT.

In Mat_25:46, kólasis aiṓnios (G166), eternal, does not refer to temporary corrective punishment and discipline, but has rather the meaning of timōría, punishment because of the violation of the eternal law of God. It is equivalent to géenna (G1067), hell, a final punishment about which offenders are warned by our Lord (Mar_9:43-48). In this sense it does not have the implication of bettering one who endures such punishment. In kólasis, we have the relationship of the punishment to the one being punished while in timōría the relationship is to the punisher himself.
Syn.: ekdíkēsis (G1557), vengeance; epitimía (G2009), penalty; díkē (G1349), the execution of a sentence.
Ant.: áphesis (G859), forgiveness, dismissal, release; apolútrōsis (G629), redemption, deliverance; páresis (G3929), a passing by of death or sin.

T. Talbott, philosophy professor at Williamette University:

According to Aristotle, there is a difference between revenge and punishment; the latter (kolasis) is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer, the former (timoria) in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction. Plato also appealed to the established meaning of kolasis as support for his theory that virtue could be taught: "For if you will consider punishment (kolasis)...and what control it has over wrong-doers, the facts will inform you that men agree in regarding virtue as procured." Even where a punishment may seem harsh and unforgiving, more like retribution than parental chastisement, this in no way excludes a corrective purpose.

[crakjak]

QUOTE=Praxeas;128213]Do you also believe what you believe is true of the devil?
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

Are the following temporary?
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honor and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth [B]forever and ever,

God has the power to rehabilate the devil, I believe will to that or annihilate him. I see no case in which God cannot accomplish His purpose and much resort to retributive of torture and revenge.

"Aionian (eternal), when associated with God, may simply refer to that which comes forth from Him and relates to His purposes; a quality of essence rather that of duration. Is this not what our Lord intends in John 17.3: "And this eternal life, that they may know You"? If this is so, perhaps the Matthew 25.46 passage could be paraphrased this way: "And these will go away into the chastisement of God, but the righteous into the life of God." GB

In reading your posted references these words can have the meaning that is described above, if that is so, why does the church hang on to the more sever meaning. Why not the more purposeful meaning, that in my opinion better aligns with the power, purpose and character of a loving parent and/or Heavenly Father?