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  #41  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:50 PM
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forgivenson forgivenson is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

I don know....I do not think Jesus is a Pagan. How could 'true' Christmas be? It is just that, like everything else of God, people over the years have 'saddled' Christmas with paganism. Dooes not mean I have to.
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  #42  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:03 AM
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Xmas is a Catholic holiday period.
Its when everyone is catholic for a day.
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Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.

Last edited by Truthseeker; 12-21-2011 at 06:15 AM.
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  #43  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:06 AM
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Quote:
Originally Posted by forgivenson View Post
I don know....I do not think Jesus is a Pagan. How could 'true' Christmas be? It is just that, like everything else of God, people over the years have 'saddled' Christmas with paganism. Dooes not mean I have to.
It started pagan not became pagan.
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #44  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:06 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

I consider it more of a family holiday. I live for CHrisrt all year. I don't need a special day to be thankful for His coming. So I treat Christmas as a holiday where my whole family gets together once a year and we give gifts.

We aren't told to celebrate His birth by any ceremony in scripture, hence my feeling that it is crazy that churches get so caught up in "we can't possibly cancel on Christmas. He is the reason we come together in the first place". Cancel your servcie and let peopel spend the day with their families.

Lets be honest...the real reason they probably dont cancel is b/c they are afraid they won't get all those tithes and offerings.
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  #45  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:14 AM
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

It boils down to a fun feel good magical time. No ones cares about the real truth about it.
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #46  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:24 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

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Originally Posted by onefaith2 View Post
I believe in being honest with kids. Again Santa is a great story but it should remain a fairy tale in my opinion. However, we should not throw the traditions out just because some take them to the extent of worship over the holiday spirit. We should tell the world of Jesus and his reason for the season.
The entire Santa Clause rutine is a game we play with kids. A game is a game. It's not dishonesty. For example, my lady friend has a five year old little girl named Addison. We kept the Santa tradition with her. Apparently Addison somehow figured out that her gifts were being stored mommy's closet. She asked Christina to open the closet and let her see what was inside. When told no and then was asked why, Addison said, "Because I think my presents are in there!" Christina laughed and said, "Oh, really? Santa isn't bringing them?" Addison smiled and hugged Christina saying, "You are Santa mommy."

Frankly, some parents are just way too uptight. Trust me, those types will find something to complain about unless you do everything exactly the way they would. They are just control freaks.
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  #47  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:34 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

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Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
I agree Brother Scott.

Pastor Meyers was also very effective in spiritual warfare.



2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. (Jeremiah 10:2-5)

Truly, not trying to be contentious on this matter, but where do you get that they cut down a tree and carve out an idol out of the passage above?
Clearly Jeremiah wrote that the heathen cut a tree out of the forest with an axe and deck it with silver and gold. Do we not today decorate christmas trees with gold ribbons, white lights and silver tinsel? Do we not fasten the tree in a tree holder and water it to keep it living as long as possible? God called people who do this custom "heathen" and that we should not learn the ways of the heathen. He also said: "Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

Plus...consider that this custom was being practiced long before Christ was born. The Catholic church, which consider themselves a "universal" religion (one size fits all) put our Lord and Savior in with all the other "gods" in their ancient celebration of Yule and sun worship.

Ask any professing pagan or wiccan and they will tell you that they celebrate "Yule" on December 21...the winter solstice.

Consider this article:
Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ's birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means "wheel," the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: "Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ."

The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects.

http://www.essortment.com/christmas-...ins-42543.html

While Christmas is a homey time of the year filled with love and warmth and generosity, I consider this to be a personal conviction bound to oneself only. I have no opinion about anybody else celebrating the Christmas tradition.
Let me guess... everytime you say the word "Thursday" you think you're giving honor to the Norse god Thor??? lol Get real.

The entire passage is about making an idol.
Jeremiah 10:2-5
English Standard Version (ESV)
2Thus says the LORD:
"Learn not the way of the nations,
nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens
because the nations are dismayed at them,
3 for the customs of the peoples are vanity.[a] A tree from the forest is cut down
and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so that it cannot move.
5Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field,
and they cannot speak;
they have to be carried,
for they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them,
for they cannot do evil,
neither is it in them to do good."
Please note God's primary point in the passage you quoted in verse 5:
Do not be afraid of them,
for they cannot do evil,
neither is it in them to do good
The children of Israel often feared the nations around them and the gods that they worshiped. This caused Israel to live in FEAR. God's point in the passage is seen in verse 5. "They cannot do evil... neither is in in them to do good." The attitude to have towards these things is... IT'S JUST A TREE! LOL

In our culture decorating a tree is merely a seasonal decoration. It's like having an ornate flower basket in the Spring. I've never bowed in worship before a flower basket or a Christmas tree. And for the record, the custom we have is based on a legend about Martin Luther taking a tree into his home to try and share it's beauty with his family. Now, I don't doubt some dumb pagan somewhere worshiped a tree by taking into his home and decorating. But the story behind the Christmas tree doesn't originate with those pagans... in our culture it's just a decoration.

I wish common sense was more common. Next you'll tell us not to do push-ups because they originated in pagan Yoga. LOL
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  #48  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:37 AM
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
The entire Santa Clause rutine is a game we play with kids. A game is a game. It's not dishonesty. For example, my lady friend has a five year old little girl named Addison. We kept the Santa tradition with her. Apparently Addison somehow figured out that her gifts were being stored mommy's closet. She asked Christina to open the closet and let her see what was inside. When told no and then was asked why, Addison said, "Because I think my presents are in there!" Christina laughed and said, "Oh, really? Santa isn't bringing them?" Addison smiled and hugged Christina saying, "You are Santa mommy."

Frankly, some parents are just way too uptight. Trust me, those types will find something to complain about unless you do everything exactly the way they would. They are just control freaks.
Your being guilty of making assumptions. Some of us that against lying are not control freaks, well maybe we are, we control our tongues against lying. If your ok with the santa lie then be ok with it but don't throw barbs at those who are not comfertable lying to their kids for the first 6 to 7 years of their lives.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #49  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:38 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

AreYouReady?,

Did you know that the "sermon" is pagan? The entire structure of our homeletic today is largely Aristotelian.

Long uncut hair for spiritual authority? Pagan.

Steeples? Pagan.

Liturgy, or order of service? Pagan.

Names of the week? Pagan.

Names of months? Pagan.

Dude... we're Western people. We have a non-Jewish culture. And our worship of Christ will come out in the cultural language we speak. Just as the Maori tribes do the haka for Jesus.
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  #50  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:41 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Yeah...I'm sure you all NEVER have lied to your kids int eh slightest right? Never even the simplest white lie right?

People get all pompous and uptight around Christmas b/c it gives them a chance to play the "I'm more holy and righteous than so and so b/c I don't belebrate a pagan holiday".
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