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10-31-2010, 04:50 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson
So are the events recorded in the link above real?
Were they or are they verifiable otherwise?
I gather this preacher was no longer affiliated with the UPCI when this happened. What did / does this church believe?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkley
Tommy Tenney verified it in his book God Chasers.
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I don't think anyone disputes that it happened. There are different thoughts as to how and why it happened though.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-31-2010, 04:53 PM
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Saved & Shaved
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 10,795
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
I don't think anyone disputes that it happened. There are different thoughts as to how and why it happened though.
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Right. Somewot talks about it on the CT website. Read at 1996.
http://www.ctab.org/about/history
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10-31-2010, 06:03 PM
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Freedom@apostolicidentity .com
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,597
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Now that I am on a desktop, I see you put this in really big font LOL! Like that makes it true or something...
What makes you the Pentecostal Litmus Test administrator anyway? The AOG states the Holy Spirit only comes with tongues? Whatever.
The most definitive and well documented record of Oneness Pentecostals was done by Talmage French.
By his criteria for inclusion Sherri and I both qualify as Oneness Pentecostal (regardless of label).
You? |
I offer the commonly held definition of "Pentecostal" held by mainline Pentecostals and the greater religious community ... which holds that a basic tenet of classic Pentecostal belief is that tongues as the only universal initial evidence of Holy Ghost baptism .... for more than a century ... which you originally deemed "narrow" ....
and your rebuttal ... is some non-sourced mush by a single org-hopper?
Hoovie, you're Oneness ..... you're not a Pentecostal.
And you're logic, scary.
__________________
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Last edited by DAII; 10-31-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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10-31-2010, 06:16 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
I don't think anyone disputes that it happened. There are different thoughts as to how and why it happened though.
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Yup... My first thoughts were "God cracked your pulpit in two? Really? That can't be good"
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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10-31-2010, 07:08 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII
I offer the commonly held definition of "Pentecostal" held by mainline Pentecostals and the greater religious community ... which holds that a basic tenet of classic Pentecostal belief is that tongues as the only universal initial evidence of Holy Ghost baptism .... for more than a century ... which you originally deemed "narrow" ....
and your rebuttal ... is some non-sourced mush by a single org-hopper?
Hoovie, you're Oneness ..... you're not a Pentecostal.
And you're logic, scary.
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Did I really? In particular I said you were narrow to say one must run the aisles to be Pentecostal. That is scary logic IMO.
So in your view, if one speaks in tongues, yet believes there may be other evidences of the Holy Spirit, he is "nonPentecostal"? I think there have been many perhaps even entire organizations that have held to that. I would concede it's not the predominate view.
Did you read said "org-hopper's" thesis work? Fantastic.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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10-31-2010, 07:12 PM
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Freedom@apostolicidentity .com
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,597
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
By definition .... Hoovie ... French believes Jesus name Pentecostal people "speak in tongues" as initial evidence .... as part of his "research" where he claims there are close to 30 million OPs in world ... whether he's verified each of the groups "evidential" beliefs which he lumps in the OP basket is another story.
He takes time to criticize the AG for their alleged "de-emphasis". Not withstanding "evidentiary tongue doctrine" is part of the Fundamental doctrine of the AG.
Oneness Pentecostalism in Global Perspective-Talmadge French Part 8 of 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeqVb...eature=related
Initial evidence doctrine is very much part of French's definition of an OP ...
Yet yours differs.
__________________
VISIT US @ WWW.THE316.COM
Last edited by DAII; 10-31-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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10-31-2010, 07:14 PM
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Freedom@apostolicidentity .com
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,597
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Did I really? In particular I said you were narrow to say one must run the aisles to be Pentecostal. That is scary logic IMO.
So in your view, if one speaks in tongues, yet believes there may be other evidences of the Holy Spirit, he is "nonPentecostal"? I think there have been many perhaps even entire organizations that have held to that. I would concede it's not the predominate view.
Did you read said "org-hopper's" thesis work? Fantastic.
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Don't switch it ... Hoovie ... we both believe in the charismata ... as evidence of the Holy Spirit ...
Yet classical mainline Pentecostalism upholds this doctrine through and through .... those that don't fall under the Charismatic umbrella.
Don't feel bad there are others among the UPCI and even the Oneness scholar circuit that have fallen wayside.
You want to call yourself a doctor as a chimney sweeper that's your right.
__________________
VISIT US @ WWW.THE316.COM
Last edited by DAII; 10-31-2010 at 07:31 PM.
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10-31-2010, 07:25 PM
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Freedom@apostolicidentity .com
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,597
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
BTW ... the "running the aisles" was a "bonus" question of which your thoughts were solicited.... not the million dollar question ... proving you're not a full-fledged Pentecostal ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII
To qualify as a full-fledged Pentecostal, Hoovie ... here is the million dollar question ...
Do you believe tongues to be the only, universal initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
Bonus question: Your thoughts of dancing in the Spirit and running the aisles in church?
If not, you're a Charismatic like the bulk of us except for the austere, drab Mennonite garb.
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Don't misdirect and pull a "what's his name"?
You've returned to your Anabaptist roots my friend ... embrace it.
__________________
VISIT US @ WWW.THE316.COM
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10-31-2010, 07:40 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII
Don't switch it ... Hoovie ... we both believe in the charismata ... as evidence of the Holy Spirit ...
Yet classical Pentecostalism upholds this doctrine through and through .... those that don't fall under the Charismatic umbrella.
Don't feel bad there are others among the UPCI and even the Oneness scholar circuit that have fallen wayside.
You want to call yourself a doctor as a chimney sweeper that's your right.
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I don't see that it's necessary to make the distinction between Pentecostal and Charismatic. If they believe in charismata and call the name at baptism they are OP.
As to French. I don't think he used his personal definition per say. In fact, I was there when D B questioned French on this. As I recall French said his research did not verify beyond: 1. how the baptism was performed and 2. whether speaking in tongues was seen as evidence of receiving the Spirit.
He did NOT question the soteriology nor "standards" or other doctrines.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 10-31-2010 at 08:11 PM.
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10-31-2010, 07:42 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII
BTW ... the "running the aisles" was a "bonus" question of which your thoughts were solicited.... not the million dollar question ... proving you're not a full-fledged Pentecostal ...
Don't misdirect and pull a "what's his name"?
You've returned to your Anabaptist roots my friend ... embrace it.
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Anabaptists roots? I have not repudiated my roots - ever. How is that?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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