Apostolic Identity??

[D. Wright]

Originally Posted by acerrak

if this is the case anabaptist make the best examples for seperating themselves from the world life style dressing technology etc

Coadie?

[sandie]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Thanks for the clarification. That's all I was really looking for. Looking back I see why your post was so one sided (because of NOW's). However, it's still my opinion that trinitarians are more accepting of oneness than oneness are of trinitarians.

But, isn't it taught that oneness is a heresy? How can then can they accept so readily? I will say though that I do think the acceptance is getting better.
I look at Jentezen Franklin and his association with the Tenneys and have a better hope.
But, it's still been my experience that oneness are basically treated as heretics.

To be technical I accused oneness apostolics of believing and teaching their way was exclusive and then I lumped you into being a oneness apostolic. The fact is that oneness apostolics often cannot even fellowship with other apostolic churches because of their exclusivity. So they are very exclusive. If you are not a onenss apostolic then I apologize. If you are then you are part of a group that is very exclusive. Does that mean you are? No. It just means the group is.

See, that hasn't been my experience at all. The UPC churches I have attended never taught or spoke of being exclusive. I even sat under two Yadons and never knew they were "one steppers". The teachings I have recieved over the years haven't led me to believe I was part of any group who thought they were exclusive. I really think they/we are getting a bad rap.
Oh...and I am indeed a oneness apostolic and make no apologies for that. I just don't happen to agree with all the extra biblical things. But, I pray I never let go of the truths God has led me to, and truly it has been a journey of discovery. My experience has been: "here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept".

By the way. I loved what you said about the journey

Thanks.

I'm betting if you explained what you believed to them instead of just saying I don't believe the trinity I believe oneness that they probably wouldn't have a problem with your belief because they would think you believe in the trinity.

I don't want them to think I believe in the trinity, because I don't. I would feel like I wasn't being honest. It's a huge church and I live so far away that I'm not involved in any of the activities. So, I haven't expressed my beliefs to anyone. The trinity has never been preached about at any rate. The pastor is really extraordinary and I enjoy his preaching/teaching very much.
You can see him on You-tube under Pastor Roger Archer. He's about as far away from what I've ever been exposed to, but my daughter came to the Lord in this church (she was baptized by another pastor) and my children really like it there. And the first time I attended I felt the Spirit of the Lord in the parking lot...so, I thought this can't be bad...:wink: Plus, I started out my journey in a Foursqure church, was baptized in the HG at a FS tent revival.

When I think an assumption is warranted then I make it. If my assumption is wrong then I'll change it. I don't think making assumptions is usually the problem. I think making baseless assumptions can be a problem. And I do think we should speak the truth in love. And I'm sorry if I haven't been.

It's all good!

Of course it happens. I never said it didn't. See there you are assuming that I'm saying it doesn't happen. It's easy to make assumptions isn't it?

I think I was more responding to the idea that the balance was wrong. That is, that the oneness are more to blame in this area.

Apostolic Identity is strictly a oneness apostolic thing. It doesn't and cannot apply to any other type of Christian. Loving others can apply to other Christian but loving others isn't a tenet of Apostolic Identity.

Well, I disagree, unless it's in writing somewhere, I do believe that loving others is a tenet of Apostolic Identity.
How is this "can't apply to any other type of Christian" written in stone?
Maybe I didn't pay close attention, but none of this has been my experience, and I first walked into a UPC church in 1973.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time for this exchange.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by sandie

Why the hostility?
Remember, we're known by our love. Most people don't "sprew", they speak as they believe.

I'm sorry, but when a significant group of people are claiming that it's their way or no way, that everyone else in the theological world is wrong, when NA Urshan found it impossible to call Walter Martin a "Brother" when Martin had no problem calling Urshan a brother, then it looks like "spewing." Sorry, but it's the truth.

There's no hostility here, just an honest evaluation of what it really is.

And by the way, it appears as though you're new here at AFF and I, for one, just want to say that I'm glad you're here!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by sandie

I mean to tell you just that. All I was doing was bringing up the other side. And even gave an example. But I never said it was one sided, those are words you seem to be putting in my mouth.



You accused me of "believing and teaching that my way is exclusive". I said no such thing and do no such thing. I happen to attend a trinitarian Foursqure church, I have NO problem fellowshipping with those who believe differently. I use to believe differently, God takes us on the journey we're supppose to be on if we allow Him. I'm NO judge of someone else's journey. So please don't accuse me of doing things I do not do.

I have not shared with anyone there my oneness belief partly because I fear their rejection when I would never reject them.

You have every right to question and disagree, but I feel we need to use a tone that speaks of love and not jumping to assumptions and then accusations that do not come across as in a loving manner. We are suppose to speak the truth in love, right?



Well, it does indeed happen. To say it doesn't is ignoring history and the experiences of others.



"So what"? Apostolic identiy should be known first and foremost by love, oneness or not.
We can come across as harsh or we come across as loving.
I try very hard not to be harsh with anyone, but I'm still growing and hope I can better represent my Lord and His kindness more and more.

Then you are clearly not the target audience here, my friend. Maybe you don't believe exclusivity, but oh my goodness, THEY do!!! It's the entire foundation of the movement. It's the "Us vs. The Entire World" mentality that was drilled into me from childhood. It's the glue that holds the fort together, bigtime.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by sandie

Well, I disagree, unless it's in writing somewhere, I do believe that loving others is a tenet of Apostolic Identity.
How is this "can't apply to any other type of Christian" written in stone?
Maybe I didn't pay close attention, but none of this has been my experience, and I first walked into a UPC church in 1973.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time for this exchange.

I believe there are two point of views being played out here of "Apostolic Identity" and I have been trying to figure out which one the thread was started on by reading the responses. If the first point of view , Apostolic Indentity meaning as defined by UPC and David Benard, then this thread is irrelevant, IMO, as just another bash and rehash thread. But you are speaking from a point of view , the one I had hoped was the point of this thread, that would be really interesting discussion if taken seriously.

The point of view I believe you are addressing is one of "true" Apostolic Identity. Not as defined by an org, but as defined by scripture. How should we as apostolics identify ourselves with the apostles ? From this point of view, I believe you are correct. Loving others is very much identifiable to the apostles. I believe jfrog and others are approaching from the first point of view which is why they disagree with your opinion to loving others as being an attribute.

On a side note, would Apostolic Identity as defined by an org be better symbolized as AI ?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by notofworks

And by the way, it appears as though you're new here at AFF and I, for one, just want to say that I'm glad you're here!

I second this. Your patience and grace in the face of sarcasm and ridicule is comendable and refreshing. Glad to have you aboard Sandie.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by scotty

I second this. Your patience and grace in the face of sarcasm and ridicule is comendable and refreshing. Glad to have you aboard Sandie.

Yes, she is the only one receiving sarcasm and ridicule. Goodness knows no one ever throws that stuff at me. Why heck, I never get criticized at all. Everyone just loves me.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Yes, she is the only one receiving sarcasm and ridicule. Goodness knows no one ever throws that stuff at me. Why heck, I never get criticized at all. Everyone just loves me.

Wow... that must be nice NOW. (TIC of course)

[scotty]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Yes, she is the only one receiving sarcasm and ridicule. Goodness knows no one ever throws that stuff at me. Why heck, I never get criticized at all. Everyone just loves me.

Yes we do NOW !

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by scotty

Yes we do NOW !

I have warm fuzzy feelings all over. I just felt the warm, soft trickle of a tear of joy.