Acts 2:38

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Especially since self righteous people are apt to serve themselves and not God.

Right

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Matthew 16:16 for the win.

Actually there is a real interest on this board about the hidden history of the UPCI. When the two groups merged the smaller of the two groups the PCI (Pentecostal Church Incorporated) for the most part believed you were saved at repentance. The Yadens were of that branch. The first General Superintendent Howard Goss taught folks were saved at repentance.

There is a lot of information on here if you type in the keyword PCI or Howard Goss or CH Yaden or WT Witherspoon or others who were on the losing side of the debate.

Very interesting info. I always assumed the Yadons believed what the UPCI taught, since they were a part of the UPCI until the split in the early 90's.
Even after the split the church I attended still adhered to the "standards", but after another incident, those were no longer required.
I did ask one of my Yadon pastors (only had two) if baptism was a necessity and I do remember him saying no...hmmm, I guess now I know why.
I was also told that after the split that some of the big wigs (mean NO dis-respect) of the UPCI flew out to see the elder Yadon and ask him to re-consider, to which he responded no.

Thank God for His Word...the older I get the more I realize I need to filter everything thru that.

But, having said all that, I want it known that I adore the Yadons, they were/are still so instrumental in my husband coming to know Jesus. I never met one of them that didn't display the "Fruits of the Spirit" beautifully.

Thank you for your response, I will do the searches you suggested.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

The underlined portion....Acts 2 :38 was not the original "message" the message was the original message. Acts 2:38 was a response to that message. It wasn't the "seeking sous" that asked what shall we do. It was saved folk that asked, "now what"

Saved folk asked what they needed to do? If that was the case, repentance wouldn't be required to be saved. Do you really believe what you just said, that they were already saved?

Honestly think about what you just said.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Well I did read that, but am not convinced that being "pierced their heart" is evidence they received the Holy Spirit.

Similarly when Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" it's not evidence of the indwelling Spirit. I would say it is indeed evidence of the Spirit convicting, working on hearts - yes. A necessary precursor to salvation but perhaps not evidence of existing salvation.

The old fashioned Pentecostal term for that would be "under conviction"

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by sandie

Very interesting info. I always assumed the Yadons believed what the UPCI taught, since they were a part of the UPCI until the split in the early 90's.
Even after the split the church I attended still adhered to the "standards", but after another incident, those were no longer required.
I did ask one of my Yadon pastors (only had two) if baptism was a necessity and I do remember him saying no...hmmm, I guess now I know why.
I was also told that after the split that some of the big wigs (mean NO dis-respect) of the UPCI flew out to see the elder Yadon and ask him to re-consider, to which he responded no.

Thank God for His Word...the older I get the more I realize I need to filter everything thru that.

But, having said all that, I want it known that I adore the Yadons, they were/are still so instrumental in my husband coming to know Jesus. I never met one of them that didn't display the "Fruits of the Spirit" beautifully.

Thank you for your response, I will do the searches you suggested.

The best study can be how the two groups united when they believe a little differently. Both believe Acts 2:38 was the right plan of salvation, regardless of when forgiveness of sins took place. I think its good to look at the overall picture and thank God these men stood for apostolic truth. They were ridiculed and exiled out of their denominal churches for a reason, because they stood for something that was not popular.

[sandie]

BTW, I've tried typing in the search engine CH Yadon, PCI, Howard Goss, and nothing comes up...any suggestions on how I can find threads concering especially CH Yadon?

[sandie]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

The best study can be how the two groups united when they believe a little differently. Both believe Acts 2:38 was the right plan of salvation, regardless of when forgiveness of sins took place. I think its good to look at the overall picture and thank God these men stood for apostolic truth. They were ridiculed and exiled out of their denominal churches for a reason, because they stood for something that was not popular.

Thank you for responding.
Can you explain a little further on what you mean by they were ridiculed?
Are you referring to the Yadons?

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by sandie

BTW, I've tried typing in the search engine CH Yadon, PCI, Howard Goss, and nothing comes up...any suggestions on how I can find threads concering especially CH Yadon?

Try just using the last name "Yadon" and searching by post, not thread. There are over 10 pages that way.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...archid=2270353

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by sandie

BTW, I've tried typing in the search engine CH Yadon, PCI, Howard Goss, and nothing comes up...any suggestions on how I can find threads concering especially CH Yadon?

I haven't search yet all this website but the accounts in the early pentecostal history are astounding. parham's testimony is powerful

http://www.apostolicarchives.com/Gol...ch_Center.html

[Sam]

Originally Posted by sandie

I must not have been clear, nothing surprising there...lol
No, I'm not questioning the necessity of the Holy Ghost, I was saving that for later..ha ha.
Really, I've been questioning the water baptisim since there are many without that baptisim who have indeed been baptized in the HG.
Are you saved without the water baptisim in His Name even though you have the HG...this is my question. Hope that makes more sense.
I had the Holy Ghost three years before I was baptized in His Name and know others who have the HG, but are they saved without water baptisim?
Conversly, I know those who have been baptized in His Name, but have not been baptized in the HG.
Can we have one without the other and be saved?

It sounds like what you are addressing is what we on the forum call "one-steppers" versus "three-steppers." Those are terms we use here to designate the two positions on salvation or regeneration taken by the PCI (Pentecostal Church Inc) and the PAJC (Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ) prior to the merger in 1945 which resulted in the UPC (United Pentecostal Church).

Somewhere I found the numbers of churches and pastors who were in those 2 organizations prior to the merger but I don't know where I found that information and, if I filed it somewhere, I don't know where I filed it.

Howard Goss was the superintendent of the PCI. The prevailing opinion among PCI ministers was that a person is saved or born again at repentance and faith prior to and separate from water baptism and Spirit baptism. They taught water baptism in Jesus' name and they taught the Holy Ghost Baptism but did not believe those two experiences were necessary to be saved. Bother Witherspoon was chairman of the PAJC and it is my understanding that the prevailing opinion among them was that a person was not saved or born again until he/she completed all three steps of Acts 2:38 i.e. repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name, and the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism).

Because of the differences among the brethren of the two organizations the "Fundamental Doctrine" statement was worded ambiguously enough so that those from both groups could agree with it and the merger could happen.

Early on in the UPC there was more freedom to believe either way. The first edition of the Pentecostal Herald (the new magazine for the new UPC organization) stated:
"The two former conferences agreed to make this paper open for articles pertaining to truths that may or may not be the opinion of all brethren, so long as these articles do not conflict with the Fundamentals of Faith of the United Pentecostal Church. However, the Editor is to be governed by the spirit of the article, and whenever the spirit of controversy is noticed in the article he is to act accordingly, and refer such articles to the Board of Publications.

"Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. This is indeed the proper attitude toward the most vital subject,..."

Over the years the three-steppers became more militant and forced the one-steppers to either leave or go under cover. So today, the UPC is presented as believing the three-step message as an organization and is often presented as having unanimously believed that message from the beginning.

I am not UPC. I have never been licensed or ordained in the UPC. Over the years I have been licensed by three different Oneness organizations. I am currently ordained by a oneness organization and by a local trinity church. I am a one-stepper. I believe a person is justified/saved/born again at the moment he or she comes to Jesus by faith. That salvation is immediate and is valid whether the person ever is baptized in water or ever receives the Holy Ghost Baptism. I believe that when a person comes to Jesus in faith and repentance and asks Him to come into his/her heart that Jesus does come in to dwell as the Holy Spirit, that the person is baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and is born of the Spirit. I believe in an experience called the Holy Ghost Baptism but I believe it is separate from the birth of the Spirit when the Spirit (or Jesus) comes in to indwell. I believe water baptism is separate from salvation but is a New Testament ordinance and should be part of every Christian's walk with God.