Was every Jew responsible for the crucifixion?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why do you think Peter told the crowd standing there that they crucified the Lord in Acts 2:23, 36, my good brother? The ones who followed Jesus were never part of that group in God's mind who crucified the Lord, anyway. So I believe your reason for your decision fails.

I do understand what you are saying and the disciples did preach to the Jews and they rejected their Messiah,yes the vast majority did.I do understand the House of Israel was addressed on the day of Pentecost.Still though if Adam would not have sinned,then atonement would not have been needed.
I am in more agreement with your train of thought though.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I do understand what you are saying and the disciples did preach to the Jews and they rejected their Messiah,yes the vast majority did.I do understand the House of Israel was addressed on the day of Pentecost.Still though if Adam would not have sinned,then atonement would not have been needed.
I am in more agreement with your train of thought though.

The point I was attempting to make in this thread was that in Acts 2 Peter accused every Jews of that day of crucifying Jesus in a way apart from the guilt of humanity, dead, born or unborn. God bless!

[Scott Hutchinson]

The house of Israel was held responsible for the crucifixion of JESUS.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

The house of Israel was held responsible for the crucifixion of JESUS.

Which meant every Jew at that time, right, since they were each part of the House of Israel?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I always believed in corporate guilt.

So you are saying that all Jews in that day were responsible corporately for the cross as Peter said?

I am saying that Israel was responsible but not that all Jews were.

Wait. Let me get your point straight. You believe Peter spoke of Corporate guilt in Acts 2:23, 36, right?

Yes, Israel was guilty for Christ's death.

Do you believe that when Peter referred to them saving themselves from that untoward GENERATION, it was a reference to corporate guilt?

No, I do not believe that.

And yet there is no repentance required for corporate guilt?

None. You can only repent or turn from the things you yourself do.

The truth is Peter offered them escape from corporate guilt by repentance. Their guilt was for sin. Individual or not, the individual escaped the corporate guilt by repentance.

The truth is that Peter offered them salvation by turning toward Jesus and being baptized. They could not repent for crucifying Christ because as individuals they didn't cause it. They could turn toward Jesus though. That is the repentance that Peter spoke of.

[jfrog]

Blume, was every Iraqi responsible for the crimes of Iraq under the leadership of Sadaam Hussein? Was every German responsible for the atrocities of Germany under the leadership of Hitler? Is every American responsible for the wrongs of America? I don't think so, do you?

[Michael]

Jesus was a Jew. Was he "responsible" for His own crucifixion?


He was???? I thought he was a Christian?!?!?!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I am saying that Israel was responsible but not that all Jews were.

So all Jews did not comprise Israel?

Yes, Israel was guilty for Christ's death.

No, I do not believe that.

The fact is that GENERATION refers to the corporate people at that day. If not, what does it refer to? In effect, you leave the individual Jew of that day without escape from Israel who was guilty of the cross, leaving Jews unable to be saved then.

None. You can only repent or turn from the things you yourself do.

I think that is extremely wrong. Corporate guilt means individuals have guilt they share with other individuals. And you are saying the blood of Jesus cannot expiate that guilt.

The truth is that Peter offered them salvation by turning toward Jesus and being baptized. They could not repent for crucifying Christ because as individuals they didn't cause it. They could turn toward Jesus though. That is the repentance that Peter spoke of.

That makes nonsense out of Peter's intention of preaching Israel's sin, then. Sorry, your thoughts do not make sense, j. Saving themselves from that generation was individual escape from corporate guilt.

Why did God destroy ALL JERUSALEM 40 years later? In history, the church fled the city due to Matt 24's instructions. Some of those jews who crucified the Lord corporately were later saved and escaped. All other Jews were left to face the havoc. WHY?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Blume, was every Iraqi responsible for the crimes of Iraq under the leadership of Sadaam Hussein? Was every German responsible for the atrocities of Germany under the leadership of Hitler? Is every American responsible for the wrongs of America? I don't think so, do you?

You cannot consider those outside Israel, God's bride and covenant people, and see the same viewpoints that God had of corporate Israel in those other nations. Israel was UNIQUE.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You cannot consider those outside Israel, God's bride and covenant people, and see the same viewpoints that God had of corporate Israel in those other nations. Israel was UNIQUE.

Israel was unique. However, it was not unique in the way that every individual of Israel is held responsible for the actions of Israel while every individual of every other country is not held responsible for the actions of their country.

Israel is unique is the poorest argument one could make when confronted with a comparison to other nations. In fact, you even attempting to use the argument that Israel is unique shows just how good my comparisons were and how much sense they made.