Thank God for Miracles!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sarah

Did you not read where Esther said prayer was made for her family on their way home? Have some of us gotten to the place where we don't believe God actually hears and answers our prayers?

If this happened to your family, Pel...or mine or any of ours on this board, you can't tell me you wouldn't be thanking God for keeping them safe! And all the while, grieving for the other family.

Isn't it ok just to rejoice with Esther that her neice and family are safe?

"Rejoice" is too strong a word, I think. And again, this is all just my own feeling and perceptions on the matter.

I, of course feel some gratefulness that others were spared. If it had been Esther herself I would no doubt feel even more grateful since I am closer to her (We "know" each other in that long term Internet forum kind of way).

If it had been my family I would certainly be even more keenly susceptible to relief. But in any case, I can't get over those who were not as fortunate. It just seems to me to be unfair to attribute the deliverance of "my family" (or Esther or Esther's family) to a miraculous intervention and thus imply that those who lost their lives were for some reason less important in the eyes of God.

That's a judgment I refuse to make. The deaths of these people appears to have been an injustice of the highest order. The "deliverance" of the family that was first described appears to be attributable to some nifty and skillful driving on the part of the gentleman at the wheel.

Kudos to that dad whose heads up actions saved the lives of his family. Our grief and sorrow to those who were overtaken unawares.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Warning: disturbing photo in the following link:

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-wrong-...,1172717.story

Practically neighbors of mine.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Esther

Well have you considered that God gave hime the skill to avert the accident?

I believe prayer is what spared them.

That doesn't mean I think God chose judgment for the other family. If that were my family I would be as devastated as their family must be.

But I give God the credit and not man for avoiding the accident. As he was intent on hitting someone head-on.

From the news reports it seems that the "wrong way driver" was simply overcome with sleepiness or otherwise in a confused state ("Police officials believe that alcohol may have been a factor in the deadly crash. A full investigation is underway"). He made a U turn and ended up still on the northbound lanes and not the south.

Here's his Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/people/Spenc...ger/1199395513

That stretch of 287 between Wichita Falls and Amarillo is a four-lane divided highway but it constantly narrows into an undivided 2-lane and then opens up again into a 4 lane. An abundance of alcohol (as the police are speculating) could cause a man to loose track of whether he was on a 4-lane or a 2-lane section of the highway.

I give "the man" (your niece's husband?) credit for saving his family's life. I give God credit and praise for giving us all life to begin with, including the life that was unjustly shortened and lost the other night on highway 287.

Lighten up and hug the guy that saved his family the next time you see him. He may modesty exclaim that the credit goes "to God," but you and I know that your niece has a husband who is alert and skilled at the wheel. That's something to be thankful for - and the guy guy deserves some thanks for doing a good job at the wheel that night.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Esther

And there is such a thing as Divine intervention. Just sayin'.

What kind of God "divinely intervenes" for one family and then simply watches as another burns alive?

The whole thing does open up a really good discussion on the nature of God and how we perceive God affects how we interpret the events in our own lives.

Esther, you are talking to a number of folks here who have prayed to God in all sincerity and faith and yet have seen real human suffering occur for which we have had to find some sort of explanation.

For myself, I am rather firmly affixed to the idea that God is just. That being the case, I have been forced to conclude that God Himself is not the agent at work in every scenario.

I have a nephew who was just born with a rather severe disability. Did God do that? Should we as a family treat this infant with the same "neglect" that God appears to have shown him? When his disabilities alter our lives and impact the things that we might otherwise be doing in the Kingdom, do we blame God for shackling us with this "burden?"

I prefer to think of God as being just. This mean that I have to remove Him from judgment and responsibility for many of the things that take place in this world. God didn't force a disability upon my nephew - the random resequencing of his genes resulted in an outcome that is statistically predictable. Traffic accidents happen within the same parameters of statistical probability. Our entire universe is created and operates in a manner that many - if not MOST - events are statistically predictable. Free human agents can complicate those outcomes - that's beauty of being human. You can change things. Sometimes.

Your niece's husband was able to change a circumstance. The unfortunate driver who perished was not able to, for whatever reasons.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

It seems the simple Scriptures carry such a great weight in matters such as this; "The rain falls on the just, and the unjust".

I don't know totally why humanity is so drawn into the superstitious, always trying to attach God to things He's never been attached to. Why is it such a hard thing to accept that unusual circumstances are just a part of life?

This and more has become clearer to me as I've gotten older. We see divorce just as high in the Church as out of the Church. I've got dear friends who've been happily married for decades but don't go to Church, while the perfect marriage in Church falls apart.

I've seen Christians lose jobs, and non-Christians keep them. I'm in the insurance business, and accidents happen to everyone. I've watched kids from great homes, go wild. I’ve seen the young die, and the old live.

I think we put God in things He was never in to begin with, and when we stop this kind of false accountability, we all can gain a healthy ideal about our Creator that is very real and honest.

Amen!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Esther

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Yes, absolutely, thank God for a miracle!

I've upset you. That's fine. Hopefully, it will give you pause and help you consider the enormity of the devastation that has taken place. So while you're dancing the victory over God's "Miracle", there are others that have a four-person funeral to attend.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by pelathais

From the news reports it seems that the "wrong way driver" was simply overcome with sleepiness or otherwise in a confused state ("Police officials believe that alcohol may have been a factor in the deadly crash. A full investigation is underway"). He made a U turn and ended up still on the northbound lanes and not the south.

Here's his Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/people/Spenc...ger/1199395513

That stretch of 287 between Wichita Falls and Amarillo is a four-lane divided highway but it constantly narrows into an undivided 2-lane and then opens up again into a 4 lane. An abundance of alcohol (as the police are speculating) could cause a man to loose track of whether he was on a 4-lane or a 2-lane section of the highway.

I give "the man" (your niece's husband?) credit for saving his family's life. I give God credit and praise for giving us all life to begin with, including the life that was unjustly shortened and lost the other night on highway 287.

Lighten up and hug the guy that saved his family the next time you see him. He may modesty exclaim that the credit goes "to God," but you and I know that your niece has a husband who is alert and skilled at the wheel. That's something to be thankful for - and the guy guy deserves some thanks for doing a good job at the wheel that night.

I have not read the facebook page, and he couldn't have written it if he was dead. One report said achohol may have played a part in it. Was he sleepy, I don't think so.

He tried to hit them and when he missed he tried AGAIN! Then he hit the other family. This was intentional.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What kind of God "divinely intervenes" for one family and then simply watches as another burns alive?

The whole thing does open up a really good discussion on the nature of God and how we perceive God affects how we interpret the events in our own lives.

Esther, you are talking to a number of folks here who have prayed to God in all sincerity and faith and yet have seen real human suffering occur for which we have had to find some sort of explanation.

For myself, I am rather firmly affixed to the idea that God is just. That being the case, I have been forced to conclude that God Himself is not the agent at work in every scenario.

I have a nephew who was just born with a rather severe disability. Did God do that? Should we as a family treat this infant with the same "neglect" that God appears to have shown him? When his disabilities alter our lives and impact the things that we might otherwise be doing in the Kingdom, do we blame God for shackling us with this "burden?"

I prefer to think of God as being just. This mean that I have to remove Him from judgment and responsibility for many of the things that take place in this world. God didn't force a disability upon my nephew - the random resequencing of his genes resulted in an outcome that is statistically predictable. Traffic accidents happen within the same parameters of statistical probability. Our entire universe is created and operates in a manner that many - if not MOST - events are statistically predictable. Free human agents can complicate those outcomes - that's beauty of being human. You can change things. Sometimes.

Your niece's husband was able to change a circumstance. The unfortunate driver who perished was not able to, for whatever reasons.

Pel I know exactly what you are saying here and I remember a sermon Bro. Harry Haygood preached entitled "The King can do no wrong". His ways are above our way and His thoughts are much higher than our thoughts. He uses foolishness to confound the wise.

I deal with an issue I don't understand at all. I know God is a just God and I have to trust Him that He knows what is best for me.

But the truth is when you see millions of babies aborted and you know you and others desperately wanted children and were denied, and you know only God is the giver of life, you want to ask why? How can this be? This isn't fair. But the truth is, God knows best. He knows what each one of us can handle. He knows the future and what we can or could not handle in life trials.

He is a just God, He is a wise God. We will never understand all the things that He allows to happen here on earth. All we need to do is trust Him, that He will work all things for our good if we love Him.

Never give up on a miracle for your nephew.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I've upset you. That's fine. Hopefully, it will give you pause and help you consider the enormity of the devastation that has taken place. So while you're dancing the victory over God's "Miracle", there are others that have a four-person funeral to attend.

Why do you see this as an either or situtation?

Why can't we rejoice over our loves one being spared while having emphathy for this other family?

Even the family whose son caused all this has to be suffering as well.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Esther

Why do you see this as an either or situtation?

Why can't we rejoice over our loves one being spared while having emphathy for this other family?

Because I believe there's a place in Christ we can reach, as stewards of His gospel, as messengers of grace, a place of selflessness, a place of preference for others, that the devastation of others far supersedes any safety and/or salvaging of self. It's the heart of Christ, the heart that is driven by the brokenness of others more than self-preservation.

I'm not claiming to have reached that place. But I'd like to be at that place. At this point in my life, I'm sorry but I can't see a miracle in one family being spared and another one being killed.