I can see in part it can be. Once you have a understanding certain aspects and that The ONE GOD expressed his image and being into a child and that child was authentic in existance as a normal person who could say. I go unto my God and your God yet say, I AM he and many other sayings... you simply have a ONENESS of being of a authentic man who is God's unique Son and the Eternal God. Think about a man that knowledge is limited but yet hear and breath the divine revelation of God when the Father speaks and he speaks as his perfected mouthpiece. To be one is such as way is to truly be perfected. One Day we shall be like him.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one,45 himself God, who is in closest fellowship with46 the Father, has made God47 known.48
The bolded -- doesn't compute. "God's unique son and God too."
I get your last part -- but this is precisely how my Trinitarian brothers describe that unity as well. In fact, it's almost verbatim.
Your scripture says that no one has seen God, but the Son has made Him known (the one "at the Father's side").
At a faith level and a cognitive level I believe and accept that Jesus is God. However, how this relationship works out, I've been around it for decades and can't quite get it. I'm jealous of those of you on here who believe you got it down.
However, the distinctiveness and apparent spatially separateness confuses the matter. If Christ is really God the Father in the incarnation, then how can the Son, which is really the Almighty in a flesh body, be fully human?
And the whole idea of the Son appealing to the Father in speech seems rather odd, if the Son is not just unified with the Father, but is literally the Father. Why the emphasis by NT writers to make these distinctions?
Also, Did the Jews believe the Messiah would be God Himself? Does the OT prophesy a Suffering Servant or...
Ahhh... why'd I start in on this thread. It's out my league. I've been in this knee deep, even taught on godhead on many occassions, but have never settled the matter... .and I feel like it's such an open topic.
To start with I think it's better we refrain from saying Jesus, the Son of God, is the Father. Semantics I suppose, but I prefer the biblical terms.
How can he be fully God and man? It's the mystery of the incarnation and I accept it at face value.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Maxi I totally agree that there are aspects that are incomprehensible, and that it's an open topic in some regards.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
To start with I think it's better we refrain from saying Jesus, the Son of God, is the Father. Semantics I suppose, but I prefer the biblical terms.
How can he be fully God and man? It's the mystery of the incarnation and I accept it at face value.
But we say at once, he is distinct from the Father, sent by Him, begotten of Him, but the next moment we say He is the Father. Not just that they share an intense unity or oneness, but that the Father is the Son.
That's where I am with it. But that's the mysterious stretch that we all get to at some point. This is why one's views of the godhead are not a deal-breaker for me.
But we say at once, he is distinct from the Father, sent by Him, begotten of Him, but the next moment we say He is the Father. Not just that they share an intense unity or oneness, but that the Father is the Son.
That's where I am with it. But that's the mysterious stretch that we all get to at some point. This is why one's views of the godhead are not a deal-breaker for me.
No, nobody says the Son is distinct from the Father sent by the Father, begotten of the Father then the next moment say the Son is the Father. Oneness view the Father and Son as distinct modes, forms or manifestations of the unipersonal Deity named Yahweh
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
No, nobody says the Son is distinct from the Father sent by the Father, begotten of the Father then the next moment say the Son is the Father. Oneness view the Father and Son as distinct modes, forms or manifestations of the unipersonal Deity named Yahweh
Is the Son the Father? Same essential "person" (for lack of a better word)?
If Jesus is only a "mode" of God, then how is he fully human?
Where does the Text say that these are merrily modes?
Last edited by Maximilian; 07-15-2010 at 01:55 PM.
But we say at once, he is distinct from the Father, sent by Him, begotten of Him, but the next moment we say He is the Father. Not just that they share an intense unity or oneness, but that the Father is the Son.
That's where I am with it. But that's the mysterious stretch that we all get to at some point. This is why one's views of the godhead are not a deal-breaker for me.
Precisely why the scripture does not use such language. The one thing we DO know is that both the Father & the Son are God.
Agreed. Not a deal-breaker, unless, one embraces a view that rejects the absolute deity of Christ.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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