Real Holiness Men Need to be an Example

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Justin

Wearing certian clothes doesn't make you any more holier than standing in a garage makes you a car.

lol

[Aquila]

I believe that Christian principles of modesty are more easily attained by Christian men. Reason being, the fashion industry is dead set on designing clothing for our ladies that is more and more revealing. So the battle ground appears to be women's fashion. When it comes to "holiness", I think men exemplify holiness in our attitudes. We do well to lift up holy hands - without wrath or doubting. If we can control our anger and frustrations without outbursts and simply believe in God's provisionary care without fretting, I think we do well.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Justin

Wearing certian clothes doesn't make you any more holier than standing in a garage makes you a car.

so can what you wear make you unholy before God? How about your speech?

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that Christian principles of modesty are more easily attained by Christian men. Reason being, the fashion industry is dead set on designing clothing for our ladies that is more and more revealing. So the battle ground appears to be women's fashion.

This is very true. But it's also possible for women to dress modestly without following the typical Pentecostal dress code. My mother-in-law is not Pentecostal, but I've never, ever seen her dressed immodestly. She's one of the most modest women I know.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that Christian principles of modesty are more easily attained by Christian men. Reason being, the fashion industry is dead set on designing clothing for our ladies that is more and more revealing. So the battle ground appears to be women's fashion. When it comes to "holiness", I think men exemplify holiness in our attitudes. We do well to lift up holy hands - without wrath or doubting. If we can control our anger and frustrations without outbursts and simply believe in God's provisionary care without fretting, I think we do well.

the early patristic teachers as a whole would in no way agree with the stuff going on now.

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Pharisees..... hmmm for some reason I have a feeling you know squat about the Pharisees and probably see them as extremely lawful do gooders that where just ignorant and just didn't know they could not obey God's law. ehh could be wrong though.

n.

1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

[Middle English pharise, from Old English fariseus and from Old French pharise, both from Late Latin pharīsaeus, from Greek pharīsaios, from Aramaic pərišayyā, pl. of pəriš, separate, from pəraš, to separate.]

The Pharisees held to Rabbinic interpretations additional to the written texts. Josephus indicates that the Pharisees received the backing and goodwill of the common people, apparently in contrast to the more elite Sadducees. Pharisees claimed prophetic or Mosaic authority for their interpretation[4] of Jewish laws.

And Jesus didn't like that they made up rules for people to follow that had nothing to do with God. He also spoke about them looking good on the outside and being filthy on the inside.

Also, did you know that fishermen would pull their robes up and exposed their legs when fishing??? Maybe Jesus did too when he went out on the boats?

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

This is very true. But it's also possible for women to dress modestly without following the typical Pentecostal dress code. My mother-in-law is not Pentecostal, but I've never, ever seen her dressed immodestly. She's one of the most modest women I know.

My mother-in-law also isn't Pentecostal and she is the most modest women I have ever met.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

n.

1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

[Middle English pharise, from Old English fariseus and from Old French pharise, both from Late Latin pharīsaeus, from Greek pharīsaios, from Aramaic pərišayyā, pl. of pəriš, separate, from pəraš, to separate.]

The Pharisees held to Rabbinic interpretations additional to the written texts. Josephus indicates that's the Pharisees received the backing and goodwill of the common people, apparently in contrast to the more elite Sadducees. Pharisees claimed prophetic or Mosaic authority for their interpretation[4] of Jewish laws.

And Jesus didn't like that they made up rules for people to follow that had nothing to do with God. He also spoke about them looking good on the outside and being filthy on the inside.

Also, did you know that fishermen would pull their robes up and exposed their legs when fishing??? Maybe Jesus did too when he went out on the boats?

Below the knees is fine historically for men. So did you look it up?

So they added to scripture which was AGAINST THE LAW TO DO! Not that they used the law but ADDED to it. You do not see the Sadducees ripped in that area by Jesus. So are you saying that applying principle application of believed scripture concerning dress code that historically is correct in many areas is wrong to teach? I don't think that is Phariseesism. Now some may have that mentality but to judge David Bernard or someone else like him in the UPCI as a Pharisee is totaly incorrect.

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Below the knees is fine historically for men. So did you look it up?

So they added to scripture which was AGAINST THE LAW TO DO! Not that they used the law but ADDED to it. You do not see the Sadducees ripped in that area by Jesus. So are you saying that applying principle application of believed scripture concerning dress code that historically is correct in many areas is wrong to teach? I don't think that is Phariseesism. Now some may have that mentality but to judge David Bernard or someone else like him in the UPCI as a Pharisee is totaly incorrect.

I can not reveal much about my past, because I have family in a "church" that will get humiliated if they can prove it is me posting. They sometimes have meetings where they "discuss" what people have left are doing to keep the congregation feeling like they are stuck there or they will go to hell. Well, they tell you that before they baptize you anyway, but proof is good too I guess. But I do know about the Pharisees and I did copy and paste the definition because online definitions are much better than what I would say. ;-)

I have not judged anyone in particular in any church organization that I can remember. I respect that people want to dress to respect the church they go to. I respect that they interpret the Bible to say that they have to wear long sleeves, men wear pants and women wear dresses etc. even though none of this existed in the Bible days for it to be mentioned in the Bible.

(I judge that THEY judge others as if they are God. THAT bugs me to no end! It's fine if people choose to go to a church and they all believe the same thing, but to tell people they are going to hell if they leave that church because they realize that they believe differently is WRONG!!)

I believe that pharisees, and even priests today, taught that people should obey what they say as if it was equal to scripture. When people make heaven or hell issues out of things that are not in the Bible, as heaven or hell issues, I am reminded of how the pharisees treated people. So, I am "saying that applying principle application of believed scripture concerning dress code that historically is correct in many areas is wrong to teach" if they are teaching something is sin in God's eyes when it is just their opinion.

I agree, this is my application of the definition of pharisee, and you obviously are NOT obligated to have the same definition. Also, I am really, really tired and all that I have written today may NOT make sense! LOL Oh, and I think the fishermen that wore robes pulled them up into their belt around their waste and it is possible that the robe was way above the knees. I believe there are drawings from that time period that show this. I don't know how to get those pictures now, I don't have access to the books I saw them in.

[OnTheFritz]

Speedos? What is this - France?