Apo.Emergent Changers Catering to "WORLDLINGS" ...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That kind of altar with railings creates a separation between the platform and the pews. It's a very real physical barrier. Opening it up and making the entire front of the church "the altar" probably had some beneficial effects on his desired revival.

That same thinking has eliminated the "pulpit" from platforms, replacing it with a small collapsible lectern, or clear plexiglass stand to hold a Bible or notes, or the pastor/teacher might just sit on a chair and speak.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I think the elderly Preacher has a really good point.


Seriously.



In our efforts to appeal to our generation, we have to appeal to them in a way that allows "room" for the Holy Spirit to move.

I don't think there is anything wrong with holy music that encourages worship and praise.


Would we want to lose the atmosphere that encourages dancing in the Spirit, running the aisles, leaping up and down to the Glory of God?

Some make fun of that stuff and say that it is not real in the first place. For some, maybe it is not. For others it is very real.


I for one, love Hillsongs, Newsboys, and Toby Mac. However, Hillsongs produces music that is 1,000 times more "worship" oriented than Toby Mac.


I wish my church would utilize more of a Shirley Caesar style in some of our music because her music encourages praise. I realize that this will not happen, ever.

But I sure would not want to go to the point of strobe lights and blazing guitars for our services. I wouldn't want to go anywhere near that for our services.

Is that preferrence? Maybe, but I think there is much more to it than that.

I am happy to say we don't do any Shirley Caesar type stuff, we don't have a strobe light but I gotta tell you we do have a blazin' guitar and I love it.

Music is all preference the Spirit doesn't "Move" with one kind of music our emotions are stirred by music. We equate a "Move of the Spirit" to the song that moves us, let's not confuse the two.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I want to get a serious lighting system and also video cams. But the lighting mostly for two reasons, one for when we have specials like skits and two so we can have directional lighting and our projector screen will not be washed out with light from the fluorescents

But sadly lighting is too much and we have a decent sound system but we need to get new speakers and we have no money for that either

Not at all, you can easily get a inexpensive older PAR Can system from www.musiciansfriend.com for cheap. The only downside to them versus the new zero heat LED lights is that you really really need to crack up your air conditioning.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...m-1?sku=801700

[Apocrypha]

I wonder if he was preaching against this church?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

Even the Ultra-Ultra Cons have custom high end LED lights to set atmosphere... thats a very expensive system.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

That same thinking has eliminated the "pulpit" from platforms, replacing it with a small collapsible lectern, or clear plexiglass stand to hold a Bible or notes, or the pastor/teacher might just sit on a chair and speak.

That's cool by me. In the Bible, a "pulpit" consisted of bare scaffolding that was stacked up to raise the speaker up so that his voice carried further. There was no "desk" type apparatus involved at all.

If there is no Biblical example or precedent for things, like a "pulpit" desk - then they are just "things" to be used or discarded as needs arise and change.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

I wonder if he was preaching against this church?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

Even the Ultra-Ultra Cons have custom high end LED lights to set atmosphere... thats a very expensive system.

I think it is all rooted in envy, ignorance and personal bias.....

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I am happy to say we don't do any Shirley Caesar type stuff, we don't have a strobe light but I gotta tell you we do have a blazin' guitar and I love it.

Music is all preference the Spirit doesn't "Move" with one kind of music our emotions are stirred by music. We equate a "Move of the Spirit" to the song that moves us, let's not confuse the two.

I can not agree with this.

I really believe that the Holy Spirit will not be manifested in our services if our Praise and Worship leaders sung songs similar to Toby Mac's, "Extreme Days."

Is there anything wrong with the song?

No way! Does it lead me to worship? No way, but I sure do feel pumped after listening to it!!!

Even I know there is more to praise and more to worship than feeling pumped.


Is there a better chance that the Holy Spirit would move with Chris Tomlin's, "Better Is One Day"?

It's not the song as much as the mind set that the song puts you in.


Some of Shirley Caesar's and Donnie McClurkin's music helps us to bring our minds and hearts to a place where we can praise God from our heart and receive from Him the blessings of His presence manifested in our services.


There is more to this than preference, though it may be a part of it. It's definitely not all that there is to this issue.

Much of the CCM produced today DOES NOTHING to create an atmosphere of worship and does nothing to put us in the right frame of mind to praise and worship God from our hearts, with our voice and with the activity of our limbs.


I don't think I've said anything that is particularly disagreeable.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I can not agree with this.

I really believe that the Holy Spirit will not be manifested in our services if our Praise and Worship leaders sung songs similar to Toby Mac's, "Extreme Days."

Is there anything wrong with the song?

No way! Does it lead me to worship? No way, but I sure do feel pumped after listening to it!!!

Even I know there is more to praise and more to worship than feeling pumped.


Is there a better chance that the Holy Spirit would move with Chris Tomlin's, "Better Is One Day"?

It's not the song as much as the mind set that the song puts you in.


Some of Shirley Caesar's and Donnie McClurkin's music helps us to bring our minds and hearts to a place where we can praise God from our heart and receive from Him the blessings of His presence manifested in our services.


There is more to this than preference, though it may be a part of it. It's definitely not all that there is to this issue.

Much of the CCM produced today DOES NOTHING to create an atmosphere of worship and does nothing to put us in the right frame of mind to praise and worship God from our hearts, with our voice and with the activity of our limbs.


I don't think I've said anything that is particularly disagreeable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEomRk14WM0

[crazyjoe]

Why don't we get down to the truth. This is really just a railing of complaints Howard Davis is using to get back at his brother's grandson's church in Riverside, CA. When the Riverside church changed their worship services, many members moved to Larry Booker's Inland Lighthouse Church in Rialto, CA (WPF).

[CAD/JPY]

I agree that many times it is how the song is sung, and the intent behind the song. Look at these two songs.

Here is the radio version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPEYphZk8s

And now look at the difference with the accoustic version... people sitting around in a peaceful sort of way... perhaps pensively considering the words of the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSVBQByfTvU

IMHO, a very big difference. The radio version is geared for just that... the second version is geared for church worship. I have been in a service where he sang it, and it is definetely a "worship" song.

BUT, on topic of this post. Anytime you change the map... as in change the map of someone's reality... it is tough. You are showing them truth, and when you have been taught that the world is flat... well, it is still hard to believe, even when the map now shows you have a whole new world discovered.

This is why, if we seek TRUTH, we will find God.... and expand our maps.