For those that left the UPC...

[GraceAmazing]

[QUOTE=Mirth1981;913035]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

I was there at this point in 2008...my husband was a licensed UPC minister and we have over 25 licensed ministers in our family...I NEVER thought I would get to that point either, but after having a daughter (who at 4 began to question EVERYTHING), I did some research to try to justify to our daughter why we held to the standards that we kept...I was surprised at what I found out...QUOTE]

Do you mind if I ask...Did your husband see it at the same time as you did? Did you wait to act on what you discovered? How did you handle it?

I think my husband is worried I'm just going to go out and buy all blue jeans and whack my hair short and "paint" my face, and just go NUTS...but that isn't the case. Wanting to cut my hair or wear makeup is not what this is about. I am trying to keep my attitude in check with the Lord...I have really been examining my own spirit lately, because I see how judgmental others can be, but yet I find myself judging others based on appearance too...this is so wrong! Jesus addressed this mindset multiple times, and especially came down hard on the Pharisees.

I want you all to know how much I appreciate your responses. Each of your experiences are unique, and I'm thankful that you're willing to share them. They have been an encouragement to me.

Oh, this could be a long story! Maybe a private message would be better...but to answer what I want publicly, let's see...both of us thought the other one was the conservative one...when we realized how each other felt, we began to pray...our first conversation was in Cancun, Mexico overlooking a gorgeous ocean...we began to verbalize our thoughts, frustrations, concerns and fears...that was in August of 2003...BUT we kept things quiet until 2005, that was when our oldest daughter started begging to wear pants because she truly is the world's biggest tomboy...obviously I said no and gave the responses I had been taught...(and this story could get really long here, so here's the Paul Harvey shortened version)...we began to pray earnestly and study the scriptures and fast...in April 2008, we left my parents UPC church where we were on staff...in October 2008, we left the UPC...for five years we prayed, fasted and studied scripture, after scripture, after scripture...I do not look at it that we found liberty...there are still MANY things that we do not do because our upbringing and that is a good thing I think...

I may get into trouble saying this, but I personally feel that you and your husband should be on the same page...that may go against your grain right now and I really do feel for you and what you are going thru...NOTHING is worth your marriage, your family or relationships...

I can say that because we have suffered greatly...God is JUST NOW beginning to restore our family relationships...it has been hard and long and I'm not sure full healing will ever come...but ultimately we followed after His leading and He has kept His hand on us...

Saying many prayers for you AND your husband during this time...and like Sis. Falla asked if you have children...if you do, make sure you count the cost...think things thru, pray about them thoroughly and I recommend again finding a well-balanced man of God that you trust and that has gone thru what you have been thru...it will really help you make the choices that are best for you and your family...

And whatever you do, please don't become bitter...and I am adding that because I went thru a season of bitterness afterwards...again, I will really be praying for you and your husband during this transitional time...

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by Sam

That would really be a difficult situation.

Your husband is licensed by the UPC. As his wife you want to support him in his ministry. You want to be used by the Lord in ministry. You are involved in a local church. Your social, family, and religious contacts/network are all involved in "church."

Now you realize that much of the doctrine and practice of the church and promoted by the organization is not Scriptural. How can you be true to yourself, your conscience, and to the Lord in this situation? Can you just "go along to get along?" Can you continue to preach, practice, promote unscriptural teachings just because "this is what our church believes"? Can a minister fulfill his calling by parroting the party line and ignoring his conscience and the Word of God?

How long before someone speaks up and declares that the emperor has on no clothes?

Sam...you have summarized the situation perfectly. All of our contacts are involved in "the church." I am asking myself the exact questions that you pointed out. "Can I just go along to get along?" I truly believe that MOST of the people in our churches are good people just trying to please the Lord. I don't want to cause any of them to stumble because I've come to a different conclusion.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

As I read all of the responses I realize how sad it is that we have lost the true reason of salvation, that is relationship with God and the kingdom of God and not to be part of a “church

I can't remember where I read it, so please forgive me if I'm stealing this statement from somebody: "Jesus said 'I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me', but some churches are saying: 'We are the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Us.'"

I think that sums it up very well.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

My two cents, submit to your husband, after all he is your head not your pastor. Ask leading questions in your family devotions to get him studying, and pray. Prayer can do in less time what debating would do. God is still on the throne.

I think that is what I am going to decide to do ultimately. I don't feel a release to do anything without the support of my husband. The Bible is very clear on THAT subject, isn't it? I believe that God will be pleased that I am submitting to my husband in spite of differences of belief.

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Now some of you will understand why it is so hard to get a Mormon or JW to leave their faith.
Face it we have become a cult.

This is so heartbreaking, but very close to the truth. May God help us all.

Thank you for sharing your testimony. It encouraged me.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Sis. Mirth,
Do you have children?

No...thank God! That would make things even more complicated. But I know within myself I could never impose these standards on my children if we do ever have any.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

Mirth1981 asked:

1)What made you finally decide to leave?

I clearly heard from Jesus to leave.

2) Was it difficult?

YES! I did NOT want to leave at the time, but knew I had to obey.

3) Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way?

Yes, but it took me a couple of months to accept the new church. Talk about culture shock!!! ( I will private message you about all this.)

4)Do you have any regrets?

Yes, I regret that I didn't leave years earlier. Just think of all the wasted years and all the harm that came to our family. ( I can't say what harm, because those watching the forum will figure out who I am and make more trouble for our family.)

I regret that my old church is STILL in control of part of my life, because I have to jump through hoops just to have contact with my family. Like I can't tell you publicly who I am, because I would be accused of slandering them. :-/ Funny how the truth is slander.

5) Anything you wish you had done differently?

As said before, I wish I had left years earlier. I also wish that I had not even discussed what God was showing me, so that I would not have been labeled an enemy of the church. Somehow, my sharing what I discovered in the Bible, and what I didn't find that is taught, made me an enemy.

6) How is your walk with God now?

Much better! The church I attend preaches the benefits of living for Jesus and sharing the love of Jesus with others. Interesting how focusing on Jesus and all He did, being grateful, and sharing all this with people who don't know Him causes me to actually focus more time on Jesus!

There is peace, happiness and joy where there used to be frustration and fear of "messing up" all the time. I don't focus on keeping my salvation and "making all the way to the end" now. Funny though, I WILL make it "all the way to the end" now because my focus IS on HIM instead of church.

7) Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

NO! That freedom came right away. What I do suffer from, is knowing that all the people I love and cherish are condemning me and think I have been brainwashed.

Thank you! You have given me a few things to think about. Our situations sound very similar.

[Mirth1981]

[QUOTE=GraceAmazing;913462]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I may get into trouble saying this, but I personally feel that you and your husband should be on the same page...that may go against your grain right now and I really do feel for you and what you are going thru...NOTHING is worth your marriage, your family or relationships...

I can say that because we have suffered greatly...God is JUST NOW beginning to restore our family relationships...it has been hard and long and I'm not sure full healing will ever come...but ultimately we followed after His leading and He has kept His hand on us...

Saying many prayers for you AND your husband during this time...and like Sis. Falla asked if you have children...if you do, make sure you count the cost...think things thru, pray about them thoroughly and I recommend again finding a well-balanced man of God that you trust and that has gone thru what you have been thru...it will really help you make the choices that are best for you and your family...

And whatever you do, please don't become bitter...and I am adding that because I went thru a season of bitterness afterwards...again, I will really be praying for you and your husband during this transitional time...

I think we should be on the same page too. I am going to try to be patient. In the meantime, I think I am going to fight feeling like a hypocrite, because I am in leadership at my church.

Did you and your husband sit down and explain to your pastor why you were leaving? How did you tell him?

I don't think there will ever be a complete healing...there are many things that I can't share on here about being treated badly and at times "spiritually abused" by ministry. I suppose that happens in other churches too...but why does it seem so prevalent in certain ones? I don't understand.

[missourimary]

Mirth, you are not a hypocrite for respecting your husband or friends' feelings or your husband's wishes.

The real hypocrites are those that say they are holy but think nothing of hurting others. Jesus didn't call the woman at the well or the adulteress a hypocrite. He never called Peter or even Judas a hypocrite. He called the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites... they were whited sepulchres--looked good on the outside, but get too close and wow, they stink!

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

No...thank God! That would make things even more complicated. But I know within myself I could never impose these standards on my children if we do ever have any.

Sis. Mirth,

Were you raised in the Pentecostal faith growing up as a child. How long
have you been Pentecostal. Was your husband raised in the Pentecostal
faith! Were you both IN the church when you married.
Hope I have not asked too many questions.

Hugs,

Falla39

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Sis. Mirth,

Were you raised in the Pentecostal faith growing up as a child. How long
have you been Pentecostal. Was your husband raised in the Pentecostal
faith! Were you both IN the church when you married.
Hope I have not asked too many questions.

Hugs,

Falla39

My husband and I have both been raised in the UPC since we were children, so yes, we were both "in the church" when we were married. He hasn't had the same experiences I have though, with feeling controlled and abused by leadership.

No, you haven't asked too many questions.

[SRM]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I apologize if I started this thread in the wrong area. Or if I shouldn't have started it at all. I won't be offended if it needs to be moved or deleted.

I'm not trying to say every UPC church is wrong, or that every UPC minister is wrong. Sorry if I came across that way. My husband is a minister...and he is a good man, with a sincere love for God. He really doesn't know what to think right now since I told him how I have been feeling. I think he feels crushed that I feel this way, but at the same time he doesn't know how to explain the "holiness standards" that are enforced in UPC churches.

Right now, I am leaning towards just "toughing" it out at my current church..but I don't know how long I can do that for. And I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because I don't agree with what is taught.

I love the Lord and I'm so thankful for His mercy in my life.

I can honestly relate to your situation and I can say first hand I have experienced it.My wife had very similar feelings and basically a long story short,I had to accept her for who she was and what she believed and leave it between her and God.Yes it had a strain at first but I realized she could not live for God for me or believe the way I do because I wanted to believe certain things.

I know my wife received the Holy Ghost,I have also known her for over 20 years and I can almost tell you what she is thinking.I told her one day I wanted to ask her a question and I wanted nothing but honesty and I believe she was..I asked her if she felt convicted for wearing pants..she told me..no..I do not..

I believe her and I know more than ever she loves God..His hand is still on her life as we travel on..I have learned to accept her for who she is and what she believes..even if others would not understand or agree...I can say the same for her as she accepts who I am and what I believe..and we both respect each other..hope I have said something encouraging for someone..