I went to a Trinity church as a child,but I didn't care about going to church or the bible,I only went cause I had to.
When I came to God,after high school,I never really believed the Trinity doctrine,so I never had that concept to break free from,all I have ever believed since making a decision to follow Jesus,is the belief that Jesus is the one true God.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
When one realizes that God isn't to be conformed to human understanding, you can see how He can be both at the same time.
The question of how many persons (or whatevers) will be seen in Heaven comes up now and then (here in this thread, e.g.). But it's always in terms of trinnies and whether they expect to see three or not. How about Oneness? Is there any reason to assume you will see only one of the manifestations there? Why wouldn't the one God, perhaps, continue to manifest Himself in two or three "offices"? Or maybe even more?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The question of how many persons (or whatevers) will be seen in Heaven comes up now and then (here in this thread, e.g.). But it's always in terms of trinnies and whether they expect to see three or not. How about Oneness? Is there any reason to assume you will see only one of the manifestations there? Why wouldn't the one God, perhaps, continue to manifest Himself in two or three "offices"? Or maybe even more?
I believe that since Jesus was the only 'office' that existed in bodily form, that will be what we'll see. God is a spirit and is everywhere. It's not possible to even see God in that form. The Holy Spirit is also a spirit. I don't believe it's possible to see Him in that form.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Oh, I have never (that I can recall) disputed that there is scriptural support for the Oneness view. Just that there isn't scriptural support for Trinitarianism-is-bogus-and-demonic-and-totally-unbiblical view. I've seen posts here saying that nobody could read the Bible and derive the trinity doctrine, that it just isn't there. Is that your view? I see the concept of trinity all over the NT.
I was raised in a "trinitarian" church that taught basic oneness. Most trinitarians I know believe in one God just as much as I do, they just can't explain it as easily as they can explain that there are three manifestations or persons of God. I've heard oneness preachers say there were three manifestations and I sat there and laughed-There are many more than three ways that God has manifested Himself, if you want to be grammatically correct. I don't think that trinity is a damnable doctrine. I think human beings just have trouble expressing spiritual things in words sometimes. I do think that there is power in knowing who Jesus really is, but again part of that is because it always scared me to think that God would send someone else to earth to die a gory death while He sat up in some comfortable throne room playing chess with our lives.
What I believe is there is one God, manifest in the flesh through Jesus. Jesus, as God in flesh, died for us. God is a spirit, and generally in the Bible the terms God, Father, Jehovah, Yahweh, etc are used to describe this Creator spirit that is omniscient and omnipresent. Jesus is God robed in flesh. He is the physical manifestation of God to us. The Holy Spirit is the term generally used to describe the spirit of God working in us and through us. These are not three separate coequal, coeternal beings, but all one God, working in different ways. That's why its easy to see that the Father and the Holy Ghost are the same: God is Jesus father, yet the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary, and she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Oops? No, God in Heaven, Holy Ghost working in and among us. Same spirit, but different terms depending on location, just like you may be "daddy" at home, "sweetie pie" to your wife, "Mr. Smith" at work, and "Timmy" here.
The verses that seem to confuse things are those that say things like "God and our Lord Jesus". Try a counter example: Lucifer was the angel of light cast out of Heaven. The Devil or Satan is the same fallen angel working evil on earth. The devil isn't two or three persons, he is one depraved being named several different ways in the bible. Tell me what you think of Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2. How many are there?
Last edited by missourimary; 10-16-2009 at 02:34 PM.
I was raised in a "trinitarian" church that taught basic oneness. Most trinitarians I know believe in one God just as much as I do, they just can't explain it as easily as they can explain that there are three manifestations or persons of God. I've heard oneness preachers say there were three manifestations and I sat there and laughed-There are many more than three ways that God has manifested Himself, if you want to be grammatically correct. I don't think that trinity is a damnable doctrine. I think human beings just have trouble expressing spiritual things in words sometimes. I do think that there is power in knowing who Jesus really is, but again part of that is because it always scared me to think that God would send someone else to earth to die a gory death while He sat up in some comfortable throne room playing chess with our lives.
What I believe is there is one God, manifest in the flesh through Jesus. Jesus, as God in flesh, died for us. God is a spirit, and generally in the Bible the terms God, Father, Jehovah, Yahweh, etc are used to describe this Creator spirit that is omniscient and omnipresent. Jesus is God robed in flesh. He is the physical manifestation of God to us. The Holy Spirit is the term generally used to describe the spirit of God working in us and through us. These are not three separate coequal, coeternal beings, but all one God, working in different ways. That's why its easy to see that the Father and the Holy Ghost are the same: God is Jesus father, yet the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary, and she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Oops? No, God in Heaven, Holy Ghost working in and among us. Same spirit, but different terms depending on location, just like you may be "daddy" at home, "sweetie pie" to your wife, "Mr. Smith" at work, and "Timmy" here.
The verses that seem to confuse things are those that say things like "God and our Lord Jesus". Try a counter example: Lucifer was the angel of light cast out of Heaven. The Devil or Satan is the same fallen angel working evil on earth. The devil isn't two or three persons, he is one depraved being named several different ways in the bible. Tell me what you think of Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2. How many are there?
Yes, that looks like one being with multiple names. But I don't recall reading about Satan talking with Lucifer, or the Devil sitting at the right hand of Satan. And Sweetie Pie hardly ever talks to Timmy.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
25 years ago when I converted to Pentecostalism it was very common to hear people say "he got the revelation of one God".
Often it was even added to the events of conversion... "he received the revlation of one God while driving his car, and was baptised in Jesus Name the next night. It was a specific and distinct occurance and added to the three Acts 2:38 steps - sort of like some others added "sanctification" in the past.
The accompanying teaching was that God opens the understanding and the revelation could not be received through study and intellect alone.
Do you remember this teaching?
Is it still taught some places?
Yes and yes.
In fact, my own mother did not get the revelation until she was baptized in Jesus Name.
She was raised Church of God and had already had a relationship with Christ BEFORE she got the revelation-- but she says the Oneness of God is something that can only be revealed by God.
Even my extended family members on my step Dad side of the family adheres to this thought process.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
From http://onepentecostal.com
Trinitarians must find some way to understand the Scriptural distinctions between Father, Son, and Spirit without confessing three different Gods, because Scripture is adamant that God is one. To do so, they constructed the notion of God having only one essence, but within that one essence existing as three distinct persons. Their emphasis on God's threeness is prevented from becoming a confession of three separate Gods only by qualifying it to say God's threeness subsists in one essence. Only by such a qualification can they preserve some form of God's oneness. Insisting on seeing the distinctions between Father, Son, and Spirit as distinctions of divine persons within one essence, in turn necessitated the redefining of "one" to mean unity, rather than a numerical oneness. When all is said and done, we end up with a view of God that seems contradictory at points, is said to be incomprehensible, and tends toward Tritheism. Trinitarianism seems to do justice to the meaning of a few passages, yet all the while violating the meaning of the majority.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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