You Be The Judge: Afp1996 vs Jason

[Steve Epley]

I googled 'Maranatha' and after reading 3 pages only 2 included 'the Lord has come" ALL the rest said "the Lord shall come of when the Lord comes"
This is a diversion used by these folks go to google and check yourself.
I would post them but I don't know how so go read and weep.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I did NOT realize Jesus was flying in a PLANE when he was talking in Mt. 24? Good to know.
Again I do NOT believe THAT generation(Jewish race) have passed away. They are still very visible.

Goes along with the book, God is my co-pilot! Plane language! Like wings, I'll fly away and etc.!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Goes along with the book, God is my co-pilot! Plane language! Like wings, I'll fly away and etc.!

TJJJ, considering Eld. Epley sometimes posts like the malapropist, Slip Mahoney; him correcting Shag's spelling is really humorous!

What’s sad here is that he ignored what Shag did say, and only focused on his typo. Unfortunately, that is not unusual for him….

[shag]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I did NOT realize Jesus was flying in a PLANE when he was talking in Mt. 24? Good to know.
Again I do NOT believe THAT generation(Jewish race) have passed away. They are still very visible.

Thanks for lining me out on my mispelled word.



So if you were one of those listening to Him tell you that "This generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things are fullfilled", then you would've understood Him to mean that He is referring to the jewish race passing away someday, correct?




In other words, you mean He could just as well have said:
"This jewish race shall not pass away till ALL these things are fullfilled".

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

TJJJ, considering Eld. Epley sometimes posts like the malapropist, Slip Mahoney; him correcting Shag's spelling is really humorous!

What’s sad here is that he ignored what Shag did say, and only focused on his typo. Unfortunately, that is not unusual for him….

Agreed, agreed! I was kind of pickin there on Epley also with the plane language too. Probably too subtle. "I'LL FLY AWAY OH GLORY, I'LL FLY AWAY". Epley likes taking his doctrine out of the "Sing unto the Lord" songbooks, I thought I would help him out, he was kind of struggling!

Marantha, Salom, Paz de Cristo, parley vu france, and all those other foreign words that people who don't know the language try to say!

[Crossfire]

Any man who denies the biblical reality of the rapture is in false doctrine and heresy.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Crossfire

Any man who denies the biblical reality of the rapture is in false doctrine and heresy.

I cannot find any verses that mention the "rapture," just like I cannot find any that mention the "trinity." Maybe you can enlighten us all?
(1) Would you please give the verses that mention the "rapture"?
(2) Also, since the theory of the rapture is based on a gap between the 69th and 70th Weeks of Daniel, would you please give the verse(s) where that gap is mentioned.
(3) And since Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are often taught as prophecies that speak of the time of the supposed rapture, would you please give the verses where such a gap is mentioned?


Your ability or inability to give these verse will prove what is "biblical" and who is and who is not teaching "false doctrine and heresy."

[Crossfire]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I cannot find any verses that mention the "rapture," just like I cannot find any that mention the "trinity." Maybe you can enlighten us all?
(1) Would you please give the verses that mention the "rapture"?
(2) Also, since the theory of the rapture is based on a gap between the 69th and 70th Weeks of Daniel, would you please give the verse(s) where that gap is mentioned.
(3) And since Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are often taught as prophecies that speak of the time of the supposed rapture, would you please give the verses where such a gap is mentioned?


Your ability or inability to give these verse will prove what is "biblical" and who is and who is not teaching "false doctrine and heresy."

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31 KJV)

Notice the key points listed here...

1. A gathering of the saints.
2. A literal resurrection of those saints which sleep in the grave.
2. A gathering of the saints which are alive and remain.
4. The appearance of Jesus in the clouds.

All these are points which proclaim the rapture doctrine true. Your point about the word not appearing in the scriptures is a straw man, and not really a point at all. But, the fact is, this preterist doctrine is a doctrine which denies the reality of the rapture doctrine, thus is a false doctrine.

As touching the 70 Weeks of daniel, I am not a dispensationalist. I believe they have been fulfilled. However, their fulfillment does not negate the future return of the Lord. This doctrine may be able to withstand the trinitarian dispensational doctrine, but not true Apostolic eschatology.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Crossfire

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31 KJV)

Notice the key points listed here...

1. A gathering of the saints.
2. A literal resurrection of those saints which sleep in the grave.
2. A gathering of the saints which are alive and remain.
4. The appearance of Jesus in the clouds.

All these are points which proclaim the rapture doctrine true. Your point about the word not appearing in the scriptures is a straw man, and not really a point at all. But, the fact is, this preterist doctrine is a doctrine which denies the reality of the rapture doctrine, thus is a false doctrine.

As touching the 70 Weeks of daniel, I am not a dispensationalist. I believe they have been fulfilled. However, their fulfillment does not negate the future return of the Lord. This doctrine may be able to withstand the trinitarian dispensational doctrine, but not true Apostolic eschatology.

Why is it you left out this verse (3 verses later) when U quoted Matt. 24?

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Epley thinks He meant the Jewish race. Perhaps you agree with Epley, or maybe you see "THIS GENERATION" as the gentiles, or possibly somebody else other than what the scripure actually says.

BTW, Epley, Why didnt Jesus just say "The jewish race" instead of "this generation?

[Crossfire]

Originally Posted by shag

Why is it you left out this verse (3 verses later) when U quoted Matt. 24?

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Epley thinks He meant the Jewish race. Perhaps you agree with Epley, or maybe you see "THIS GENERATION" as the gentiles, or possibly somebody else other than what the scripure actually says.

BTW, Epley, Why didnt Jesus just say "The jewish race" instead of "this generation?

Actually, 1Peter 2:9-10 actually answers this question:

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV)

The Church's departuer shall not take place until all the events pertaining to the tribulation are fulfilled. In preterism's use of generation, it seems to forget that the Church as a whole, from it's inception, is called a generation. This is where we know the Church will go through the tribulation, but will not have a part of the wrath of God poured out during the tribulation.