How close should a pastor get to the members?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by LadyCoonskinner

It's hard to "reprove, rebuke, and exhort" your buddy.

You can be a friend, but there is a certain line that must be maintained if you are going to be an effective leader.

I agree.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by LadyCoonskinner

It's hard to "reprove, rebuke, and exhort" your buddy.

You can be a friend, but there is a certain line that must be maintained if you aregoing to be an effective leader.

You can do it with love. If Timothy needed rebuking I'm sure Paul would do it, but with love and a spirit of meekness.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by keith4him

I have seen both sides, I got close then got burned badly, yet I agree with the clergy and lay person separation as being unscriptural and doesn't produce true discipleship.

So I guesss somewhere in the middle.

Keith

I believe part of the reason for this break down are the concepts that we have which are reinforced by our words. For example, lay person is one of them. This word and concept has no biblical origin. We are all ministers to God and to mankind.

[ManOfWord]

Well, here's how I do it: I do NOT expect to be called brother or even pastor. I don't need a title to be respected. Those who don't use the title respect me just as much as those who do. I will do activities with folks @ NLC. I'll play racquetball, boat, bicycle, play guitar, have coffee, lunch, dinner, fish, hunt, golf or whatever with any of them (except ladies) but I won't do it all the time. I want them to understand that I am just like them. I like to win, in competition, but I can lose gracefully. I get impatient, but don't lose it. I leave decent tips and am especially kind to waiters and waitresses. I say please and thank you and don't drive too fast. (relative term)

How can they know how to live this if I don't tell them or show them? Diane and I have led numerous cell groups in our home and always pick new people when we are starting a new one.

I also, well remember, the special tables at camp etc. for ministers. Before I became a minister, I couldn't wait to become THAT special. When I became that special, then they had a special "District Officials" table. So I had to "covet" THAT table. Unfortunately, I never got there before I was set free.

I don't even sit on the platform in our church. I try to remove every obstacle that I can which keeps our ministry staff from the people. I give honor to our staff, but always tell them that the moment we erect a wall of separation between us and those whom we are supposed to be serving.......we're DONE!

A wall may protect, in some people's eyes, but it is also a barrier for ministry as well.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I've heard it said for decades (in certain orgs) that a pastor should not get close to the "saints." I've been around long enough, (Sr. pastor for 25yrs) to see the chasm this philosophy creates. It makes an almost untouchable ministry. It sets the ministry up so high that hardly anyone can get there. It makes the ministry a "caste" to itself. It creates "ministry only" seating and preferred perks. It creates an entitlement mentality. It promotes the ministry preaching one thing and then when they're out of town, doing another. In some circles, the pastor would NEVER even consider taking out a family for dinner or inviting them over for some laughs.

Why do pastors NEED a place only for themselves that the members never get to? Is it maybe, just maybe because they don't love the sheep as much as they portray that they do? (food for thought)

If the pastor is isolated to whatever degree, how in the world can he replicate himself? Oh wait, maybe he does.......... in the ministers he raises up. He raises them up to do the same thing!

And if someone can marry into the pastors family.............Lord have mercy, they've hit the lottery!!!! They "escaped" the lower caste!!

The greatest compliment I think I have ever received as a pastor was that I "smelled" like the sheep. Pastors should desire to create an atmosphere of unconditional love and acceptance and accesability which can be imparted to the rest of the church. What could happen with an "army" of people like that in a community?

Just some rambling thoughts!

Growing up - in the church I was from and the generation I grew up with; an individual could not actively participate in our church unless they were dating the Pastor's child. For my family and I - it was a fate we wish we would have escaped. Relationships were sabotagued due to the Pastor's family and when we wanted to "not date" the Pastor's son then we were ostracised and no longer a part of anything. And if you married the pastor's son or daughter then God bless your heart - that is all I have to say on the matter.


Most pastors in or out of UPCI set themselves up and their churches up for failure to be all God's wants and expects by only allowing family and certain "yes" people to be a part of their inner circle.

JMHO.
Rhoni

If there would have been some way to be in ministry and not marry a preacher - I think I would have married better.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Growing up - in the church I was from and the generation I grew up with; an individual could not actively participate in our church unless they were dating the Pastor's child. For my family and I - it was a fate we wish we would have escaped. Relationships were sabotagued due to the Pastor's family and when we wanted to "not date" the Pastor's son then we were ostracised and no longer a part of anything. And if you married the pastor's son or daughter then God bless your heart - that is all I have to say on the matter.


Most pastors in or out of UPCI set themselves up and their churches up for failure to be all God's wants and expects by only allowing family and certain "yes" people to be a part of their inner circle.

JMHO.
Rhoni

If there would have been some way to be in ministry and not marry a preacher - I think I would have married better.

I do NOT want my leadership team to be populated with YES people. I purposely pick some I know will disagree with me simply for the perspective they bring. They have never derailed our overall plans or vision.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

You can do it with love. If Timothy needed rebuking I'm sure Paul would do it, but with love and a spirit of meekness.

I'm sure she knows that, Mizpeh.

I have a very close friend that called me yesterday to express some of her personal woes. It's very hard for me to point out what she is doing wrong. For one thing, she is a grown woman and should know better. Second, we are close friends and she would be offended if I told her exactly what I really thought. I'd really like to, point blank, tell her, but she wouldn't listen anyway.

The best thing, which I have always done, is leave that up to the preaching. I don't talk to my pastor about a whole lot of things. I need him to be sensitive in prayer and deliver through the preached word.

That has always worked for me. Lots of change and answers without everyone knowing everything you are going through.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I do NOT want my leadership team to be populated with YES people. I purposely pick some I know will disagree with me simply for the perspective they bring. They have never derailed our overall plans or vision.

That is why you have a rockin' church Bro. MOW!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Well, here's how I do it: I do NOT expect to be called brother or even pastor. I don't need a title to be respected. Those who don't use the title respect me just as much as those who don't. I will do activities with folks @ NLC. I'll play racquetball, boat, bicycle, play guitar, have coffee, lunch, dinner, fish, hunt, golf or whatever with any of them (except ladies) but I won't do it all the time. I want them to understand that I am just like them. I like to win, in competition, but I can lose gracefully. I get impatient, but don't lose it. I leave decent tips and am especially kind to waiters and waitresses. I say please and thank you and don't drive too fast. (relative term)

How can they know how to live this if I don't tell them or show them? Diane and I have led numerous cell groups in our home and always pick new people when we are starting a new one.

I also, well remember, the special tables at camp etc. for ministers. Before I became a minister, I couldn't wait to become THAT special. When I became that special, then they had a special "District Officials" table. So I had to "covet" THAT table. Unfortunately, I never got there before I was set free.

I don't even sit on the platform in our church. I try to remove every obstacle that I can which keeps our ministry staff from the people. I give honor to our staff, but always tell them that the moment we erect a wall of separation between us and those whom we are supposed to be serving.......we're DONE!

A wall may protect, in some people's eyes, but it is also a barrier for ministry as well.

Also stretch the truth a little?

I saw ya in that little chitty chitty bang bang!

BTW, I agree most of what you are saying.

Familiarity that tends to breed contempt is a fine line!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I also, well remember, the special tables at camp etc. for ministers. Before I became a minister, I couldn't wait to become THAT special. When I became that special, then they had a special "District Officials" table. So I had to "covet" THAT table. Unfortunately, I never got there before I was set free.

I remember when we were asked to sit at the "head table" for a banquet. Lord, I HATED IT! I wanted to talk and mingle with the people and not sit like an idiot staring at everyone in front of us. We refused the "head table" after that night. My husband hates that also!