The Apostolic Welfare Culture

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

1. "Preachers" have created this mentality with the class system they've instituted in what they call 'church'. Clergy/Laity. "Obey those that RULE you". "A PASTOR must set BOUNDARIES". Etc... What do they expect? The whole culture is wrong.

2. What's wrong with making learning interesting and engaging? Sounds like someone doesn't have the skills to make it engaging for kids... and is looking to justify they inability.

3. Well, if some preacher wants to gripe about that, then that's their perogative. Most of us have a life outside of the four walls of that building some call 'a church'. We have jobs that require our attention in order to get paid at them, and support our families. God forbid a preacher be respectful of that and actually be *GASP* Sensitive to the physical needs of the people in the congregation he pastors.



Go ahead... lay some more gripes out. I'm sure you've got more.

Been there, done that , and they didn''t even give me a T-shirt.

Been Church FIRST - Church SECOND- God third Job -fourth (with much $ going to the church) Family...so sorry, no time left.

We say we are Apostolic but follow the CLERGY class system laid out for us by the RC church.


Clergy is to be"set upon a pedestal" their every need and whim met.

Give me house to live in , tax breaks, and a weekly check and I'll come and share the gospel with you.

You saints, however, are not worthy of your hire.

Some have gone so far in this clergy worship, that they have some one carry their bible for them. They have servants, to wipe their brow as they lather up in sweat, doing what they claim is delivering the words from God.

HOW DARE someone that is just a saint think that their church should care about their schedules, their family time, the kind of music they enjoy in worship. That any thought to their work schedules should be considered when scheduling services and other acrivities in church.


Before you all stone me, I'm "clergy class" too. So less get this thread back on track and bash Saints who desire to attend a church that cares. This sometimes does require "changing churches"


WOW...maybe I should have another cup of coffee before I post this.

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.

Whole Hearted,

This is a true command in the NT but I also know that you know that the Kingdom is SOOOO much more than just the assembling of ourselves together. Unfortunately I know folks that NEVER miss an assembling that are only involved in the Kingdom on those days.

I believe that EVERYTHING we do should be measured in its value to or ability to bless The Kingdom of God! If an action cannot in any way bless the Kingdom of God then it is probably not the will of God but it is the will of man!

Just the way I live my life.

Originally Posted by Ronzo

I'll leave you with this...

In Christ, yes! But not "church" as we know it today.

You are a clever man and read between the lines quite well...

read the above post of mine and you will see that we are indeed in agreement.... sort of

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

PP,

I have never had that attitude nor made those demands. From the time I was grown I always went to the megachurch first. No small chuch preacher ever had to whine that I left him for the big church across town!!!!!

I'm with you CC1. I won't go to a church that doesn't serve donuts.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Been there, done that , and they didn''t even give me a T-shirt.

Been Church FIRST - Church SECOND- God third Job -fourth (with much $ going to the church) Family...so sorry, no time left.

We say we are Apostolic but follow the CLERGY class system laid out for us by the RC church.


Clergy is to be"set upon a pedestal" their every need and whim met.

Give me house to live in , tax breaks, and a weekly check and I'll come and share the gospel with you.

You saints, however, are not worthy of your hire.

Some have gone so far in this clergy worship, that they have some one carry their bible for them. They have servants, to wipe their brow as they lather up in sweat, doing what they claim is delivering the words from God.

HOW DARE someone that is just a saint think that their church should care about their schedules, their family time, the kind of music they enjoy in worship. That any thought to their work schedules should be considered when scheduling services and other acrivities in church.


Before you all stone me, I'm "clergy class" too. So less get this thread back on track and bash Saints who desire to attend a church that cares. This sometimes does require "changing churches"


WOW...maybe I should have another cup of coffee before I post this.

Honestly, FAL, is it a church that cares they desire or is it a church that entertains and has few if any expectations of them? I am not saying that the mega church cannot also be a caring church but i am saying that the motive of the saint, just like that of the preacher, can be off target and wrong! (love redundancy)

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

A true saints life will revolve around God and His church. Seek ye first the kingdom of God.

I love my church, my pastor, etc. I'm involved whole hearted. I believe its of utmost importance.

But if you think for a second one should walk away from a sick kid or cancel much needed family devotion. Or neglect family time?????

Originally Posted by philjones

You are a clever man and read between the lines quite well...

read the above post of mine and you will see that we are indeed in agreement.... sort of

I know what you're getting at.

This isn't for you, Phil, because I believe you already know it and grasp it...

If we spend nearly all our 'free' time at church (Sunday morning, Sunday night, Tuesday prayer meeting, Wednesday night church, Thrusday night choir, etc) when do we have time to actually build our relationships not only with our own familes, but with the 'unchurched'... not to mention get enough rest to be effective at our jobs so we can actually provide for our families?

Men are the priests of the home. A priest not only takes care of the spiritual things, but he takes care of the physical needs in the house as well.


Assembling does not require meeting within a four walled designated meeting place... God does exist outside those walls last time I checked.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

If one truly loves his family he will not only provide for physical need but also spiritual one. If ones doesn't get their families in church and involved in church he doesn't truly love them. Everything that money can buy will pass away, but the things of God are eternal.

One cannot be saved without a preacher.

providing spiritually for my family does not require a church bldg.

Although we are faithful in attendance.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by philjones

Honestly, FAL, is it a church that cares they desire or is it a church that entertains and has few if any expectations of them? I am not saying that the mega church cannot also be a caring church but i am saying that the motive of the saint, just like that of the preacher, can be off target and wrong! (love redundancy)

Phil this America. Land of capitilism and competetion. I've known whiny pastors who grubled that "their folks was a leavin".

Complained "their saints" moved off to the greener grasses of a church that had it going on.

All the while they complained, they also did nothing to make the church they pastor more "user friendly" They contuinued to show up each week and dole out the "weekly beating", they so sadly called a sermon.

Then wonderd aloud about the unappreciative bunch of saints God had "blessed" him with.

If your'e not treating the Children of God right, doing what God is blessing, instead of asking God to bless what you are doing. Well then grumble all you want, I ain't buying what your'e sellling,

Not you personally Phil.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Phil this America. Land of capitilism and competetion. I've known whiny pastors who grubled that "their folks was a leavin".

Complained "their saints" moved off to the greener grasses of a church that had it going on.

All the while they complained, they also did nothing to make the church they pastor more "user friendly" They contuinued to show up each week and dole out the "weekly beating", they so sadly called a sermon.
Then wonderd aloud about the unappreciative bunch of saints God had "blessed" him with.

If your'e not treating the Children of God right, doing what God is blessing, instead of asking God to bless what you are doing. Well then grumble all you want, I ain't buying what your'e sellling,

Not you personally Phil.

The bolded part is what is sad to me. I doubt some (if any) of the pastors on this forum understand it because they aren't like this. I can tell you first hand, "weekly beatings" happen!