I know a few that teach that the shaving of the head was done as part of a purification "IN ORDER TO" start a fresh dedication. It was not "BECAUSE" a dedication HAD occurred.
very interesting study...
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The following is taken from "Because We Are His, Biblical Studies in Practical Holiness, The Hair Question" by Raymond Woodward...
"Some contend that while Paul taught men to have short hair, he himself took a Nazarite vow, basing this opinion on Acts 18:18 - “And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.” However, the “vow” referred to in this verse is from “euche,” the same word used in James 5:15 for the “prayer” of faith. Paul did not shave his head because he was finishing a Nazarite vow, for the New Testament church did not practice that! Rather, he had just been delivered from the court of Gallio, so he needed to cut (“kiero”) his hair because he was going to prayer! Paul knew that God cared what his hair looked like!"
The whole section on hair is quite interesting.
Speaking of interesting! I find it very interesting, that here "shorn" obviously means that Paul's hair was cut very short, same as all the other uses in Scripture. BUT when it comes to I Cor. 14, our traditional translation has been simply "kiero" cut. The main basis for teaching women's hair be "uncut".
So how does one in their mind translate all the other uses of shorn in the scripture without fail, but make an exception for this one??
Wow, so pagan cultures determine biblical truth. Also it was only long in compared to the butch cuts most women have today. As in time past women let there hair grow very long. Long is not to the shoulders.
Unless you are a black woman or a woman who's hair doesn't grow past their shoulders.
What of those women?
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Unless you are a black woman or a woman who's hair doesn't grow past their shoulders.
What of those women?
This is why I believe that the verse on hair is simply stating that a woman is to allow her hair grow to its full length, and men are to do the opposite (cut his hair in a short fashion). I personally do not think it is a matter of bringing out a tape measure, but a matter of how the hair is allowed/not allowed to grow.
This is why I believe that the verse on hair is simply stating that a woman is to allow her hair grow to its full length, and men are to do the opposite (cut his hair in a short fashion). I personally do not think it is a matter of bringing out a tape measure, but a matter of how the hair is allowed/not allowed to grow.
Bingo!
Another victory for common sense.
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Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
Speaking of interesting! I find it very interesting, that here "shorn" obviously means that Paul's hair was cut very short, same as all the other uses in Scripture. BUT when it comes to I Cor. 14, our traditional translation has been simply "kiero" cut. The main basis for teaching women's hair be "uncut".
So how does one in their mind translate all the other uses of shorn in the scripture without fail, but make an exception for this one??
Hair is the covering and to pray uncovered one must remove some of the covering.
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Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...
Yes I have. I didn't just pull this out of thin air. I have several Greek tools that I refer to for difficult NT passages.
Besides, I quoted 13 versions that disagree with you on that verse. (I can provide many more if you like.)
Meanwhile, can you provide 13 versions that agree with you? Somehow I think not.
Are you really serious with that question?
OK... simple answer:
The same way "the heavens declare the glory of God". (Psalm 19:1)
There's your answer,sir.
I am not advocating long hair on men at all and I know that most versions translate as you say. I understand that. I am more concerned with what Paul penned than with how the translator may have not gotten it correctly. I am not on a crusade here I am only offering these "takes" for discussion and things I have found in study.
Again, how does nature itself teach us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair?
Mankind, for thousands of years wore long hair and that is a fact. It had nothing to do with being effeminate or cross dressing or anything of the sort. Nature teaches us that a man naturally has long hair. History teaches that men have worn long hair far longer than short hair.
Nature does NOT teach us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair. That is what Paul was saying. Culture may, but nature does not. I can accept any cultural norm as long as it does not violate scripture.
A man having long hair does NOTHING to detract from the glory of God. Jesus had long hair, since He was Jewish and it would have been the cultural norm. If the hair on His head was not long, for sure His side burns were long. When I say long, I am not talking about long hair as in women either.
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I know that most versions translate as you say. I understand that. I am more concerned with what Paul penned than with how the translator may have not gotten it correctly. I am not on a crusade here I am only offering these "takes" for discussion and things I have found in study.
I will go with the consensus of non-biased translators over hundreds of years, rather than something you say you've found "in study".
Your inference that they all got it wrong, but you got it rightis not something I'm inclined to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Again, how does nature itself teach us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair?
Mankind, for thousands of years wore long hair and that is a fact. It had nothing to do with being effeminate or cross dressing or anything of the sort. Nature teaches us that a man naturally has long hair. History teaches that men have worn long hair far longer than short hair.
There's been homosexuality for thousands of years too, but that doesn't make it the norm, or natural, in God's eyes.
The existence of something is not the issue here. The issue is "what is God's desire for his creation"?
I'll just leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
History teaches that men have worn long hair far longer than short hair.
You didn't bother showing any historical references for this assertion.(Maybe because you dont have any?)
But I think its almost inarguable that in most cultures worldwide, throughout time, women have worn their hair longer than men. (Just looking at the many ancient paintings, drawings, sculptures, and other depictions we have from Europe, Asia, the Middle east, and other parts of the world, its not that hard to see, except for those who might not want to.)
This has long been a mark of gender distinction in most cultures. This is what Paul was alluding to when he says even nature teaches us this. Unfortunately, you refuse to see this simple fact, in large part because you choose to cling to a badly flawed translation from the Greek, which flies in the face of the long-held basic translation of that verse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Nature does NOT teach us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair. That is what Paul was saying. Culture may, but nature does not.
If we choose to use your flawed translation of the scripture, I guess so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Jesus had long hair, since He was Jewish and it would have been the cultural norm. If the hair on His head was not long, for sure His side burns were long.
Jesus had long hair?
Not found in scripture. Simply not provable.
Therefore, in my view, it's not worth consideration in this conversation.
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Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
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