Go ahead, type, bold, and underline all day long. There are promises made to nation groups and the descendants that were fulfilled and are integral part in prophetic destiny (and no, this doesn't presuppose futurism).
Could not answer me, could you? Some people will only believe what they want to, and become angry they were exposed.
No need to get touchy. Just discuss kindly.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Could not answer me, could you? Some people will only believe what they want to, and become angry they were exposed.
No need to get touchy. Just discuss kindly.
I'm not angry. I'm just amazed at how so many want to "prove" this or "prove" that against another.
Bro. Blume....I assure you....you're not all knowing and there are aspects to many things that you know very little about.
I'm only attempting to answer a question by explaining how someone could be an Israelite and not know it.
I'd suggest not being so insecure about what others believe. Understanding the role of the United States, Britain, and Israel in today's world doesn't discount a single thing you believe. I assure you.
Identifying Judah and Israel in prophecy has nothing to do with "salvation" provided in Christ. It only creates a context for understanding prophetic destiny and a backdrop for understanding current events. Salvation is an entirely different story. But something interesting is said of Jesus by the high priest....
John 11:50-52
50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
The "children of God" that were scattered abroad are the lost seed of Israel (Ephraim and Manasseh).
Remember, Ephraim and Manasseh were promised that that one would be a "multitude of nations" and the other would be a "great people". Either this was fulfilled....or a promise went unfulfilled.
And it's important to understand, there's a significant difference between being a Jew and an Israelite.
Yep, British Israel!
Aquila, how can you claim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
Identifying Judah and Israel in prophecy has nothing to do with "salvation" provided in Christ.
When you first said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
…If this is true, many Americans and Brits are "Israelites". This is why America and Britain are tied to modern Israel (Judah) in prophetic destiny. America, Britain, and Israel are nations full of many descendants of Abraham through Isaac. This is also a detail in understanding why God has chosen to preserve and spread his Word through the English peoples and language. And this is the spiritual root of America's godly heritage.
Now factor in a second detail....Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. This is why Arabs desire to destroy America, Britain, and Israel....many of us are children of the covenant through Isaac....and the Arabs are the seed of the bond woman, children of Ishmael. This is the spiritual side of the battle against Islamic terrorism. It's all prophetic. It's a battle between the seeds, and the fate of the world rests in the balance.
Your statement MADE it salvational.
Also, where does John 11:50-52 say anything about British Israel doctrine? The gathering is the gospel going to every Jew, Samaritan, and gentile, gathering them to the True Israel of God, Jesus Christ!
Remember, Jesus is from the Tribe of Judah. Look at this:
Psalms 78:67-68
(67) Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
(68) But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.
It says God "refused the tabernacle of Joseph" and "chose not the tribe of Ephraim." That really presents a problem for the British Israel doctrine. The Psalmist then says God instead "chose the tribe of Judah." Aquila, when did God change his mind about Judah and turn back to the tribe of Ephraim?
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
Also, where does John 11:50-52 say anything about British Israel doctrine? The gathering is the gospel going to every Jew, Samaritan, and gentile, gathering them to the True Israel of God, Jesus Christ!
Yes, on a soteriological level. However, the lost tribes were integrated into Assyria and most probably spread throughout Europe. They didn't just magically disappear.
Quote:
Remember, Jesus is from the Tribe of Judah. Look at this:
Psalms 78:67-68
(67) Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
(68) But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.
It says God "refused the tabernacle of Joseph" and "chose not the tribe of Ephraim." That really presents a problem for the British Israel doctrine. The Psalmist then says God instead "chose the tribe of Judah." Aquila, when did God change his mind about Judah and turn back to the tribe of Ephraim?
God chose Judah to be the tribe from which the Messiah would come...that doesn't mean God suddenly dropped every promise made to all other children of Israel. Anyone who believes in the lost tribes gladly accepts that.
America's Godly heritage and the heritage of the English Bible don't speak of salvation. Only that being Israelites, they were God's instruments to preserve the Word and a free society based on that said Word.
I'm not a Jew and don't pretend to be. But I am of Anglo-Saxon heritage. And our ancestral history includes many legends of an Israelite connection that go back long before my birth.
Why the hostility? I know you don't believe in the concept, but should it be true, what bearing would it have on you and your faith and salvation?
I'm not angry. I'm just amazed at how so many want to "prove" this or "prove" that against another.
Bro. Blume....I assure you....you're not all knowing and there are aspects to many things that you know very little about.
I'm only attempting to answer a question by explaining how someone could be an Israelite and not know it.
I'd suggest not being so insecure about what others believe. Understanding the role of the United States, Britain, and Israel in today's world doesn't discount a single thing you believe. I assure you.
Who said I know it all? Insecure? I just asked you to respond to Scriptures that state clearly that what was prophesied to Israel is fulfilled in the church, and you did not respond. Please respond to that.
British-Israelism and dispensationalism both were engineered to remove correct focus upon the church.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Yes, on a soteriological level. However, the lost tribes were integrated into Assyria and most probably spread throughout Europe. They didn't just magically disappear.
God chose Judah to be the tribe from which the Messiah would come...that doesn't mean God suddenly dropped every promise made to all other children of Israel. Anyone who believes in the lost tribes gladly accepts that.
America's Godly heritage and the heritage of the English Bible don't speak of salvation. Only that being Israelites, they were God's instruments to preserve the Word and a free society based on that said Word.
I'm not a Jew and don't pretend to be. But I am of Anglo-Saxon heritage. And our ancestral history includes many legends of an Israelite connection that go back long before my birth.
Why the hostility? I know you don't believe in the concept, but should it be true, what bearing would it have on you and your faith and salvation?
Aquila, I am not being hostile. As a matter of fact, I'm enjoying the talk. You need to learn not to take someone's disagreement with you personally. We're talking about God and His Word, right? That's a bigger subject than any one person on this forum. Your wrong on this (which you are ), but I will miss it somewhere else someday. Hey, it's all about maturing unto the measure of the the fullness of the stature of Christ!
The other thing you need is this scripture:
(John 5:39) Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Brother, the whole focus of the Bible is about Jesus! Not a tribe, tribes, or people, but Jesus. Simple?
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
The law was given for transgression UNTIL Jesus (the Seed) could come.
The law and the prophets were until John, but grace and truth came by
Jesus Christ. Under the Old Covenant everything pointed AHEAD to when
Jesus Christ would come. Jesus came and fulfilled the law. Now we look
back to the Cross that marked the place where things began to change.
Where things were going to be better. Bitter bondage was going to flee
because the One who came to set the captives free had come. Those
who sat in darkness were going to see a Great Light. The One who could
exchange beauty for ashes had come. The One sacrifice, once and for all,
had been given. Bless His Holy Name!!
Those that are Christ are not under the law. Many are still blind because
they are like those children that are not of age yet. Though an heir, they
are are no different than a servant because they are under tutors and
governors, etc. until the time appointed of the father. He knows when we
are able to receive/believe we are truly son/daughters of the Almighty.
A King is not about to hand over a son or daughter's inheritance if He
knows that child is not mature/responsible to realize the value and handle
it with carefulness.
He knows when we are responsible and mature enough to realize the value
of our inheritance. He doesn't want us to waste it. The One who paid the
price knows the value and what went into obtaining it.
(Read Gal. 4:1-7)
Jesus paid it all,
All to Him I owe;
Sin had left a crimson stain,
He washed it white as snow.
Many today have been given "valuables" that they were not mature or old enough to handle. Much waste has been the result. Things too easily ob-
tained don't hold the value that it would if the price had been paid. The
value of something is most realized by the one who labored for it.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye seperate, saith the LORD,
and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father
unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
(2Cor. 6:17,18)
Who said I know it all? Insecure? I just asked you to respond to Scriptures that state clearly that what was prophesied to Israel is fulfilled in the church, and you did not respond. Please respond to that.
British-Israelism and dispensationalism both were engineered to remove correct focus upon the church.
British Israelism "can" remove correct focus from the church, same can be said about other biblical teachings. The issue is emphasis. It's all in how it's approached. For many, the focus is God and the dependability of his promises. Yes, the church shares in many promises....but those promises are exactly that, promises. The church is the vehicle through which Ephraim and Manasseh have received the blessing promised to them.
), but I will miss it somewhere else someday. Hey, it's all about maturing unto the measure of the the fullness of the stature of Christ!
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