A Petition Movement to Save the Union

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

The two that I know of that are on tv are Bishop Billy McCool in Knoxville, TN and I think they run probably 300, and Bro Kenny Carpenter in Maryville, TN, and I think they are running about 400-450.

Are they rebroadcasting on TV or are they set up like the lawyers and Auto Dealers hawking the church?

If TV A major part of the advertising/outreach?

Did they do this when smaller?

NW opened his new church and does no outreach now simply because of the size of his congregation.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yes and yes.

As did most ministers ....in my district ... including most district officials ....

Which now leads me to another point ... this issue is already a done deal .... let's get real about it ....

Most of the fellowship has TVs and many ministers do ... whether you think this is hypocritical or not ... even some national leaders do ...

Why not ... accept the realities and move on .... seriously ....

As for the semantics and legalese ... this is going to happen ... what will be interesting is how some will react.

Maybe in a liberal area like you came from, it will happen. In other areas there were/are zero TV's in homes.

How could you then in good conscience sign that you believed the teachings you were in violation of?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Maybe in a liberal area like you came from, it will happen. In other areas there were/are zero TV's in homes.

How could you then in good conscience sign that you believed the teachings you were in violation of?

I didn't sign any AS ... I had my license less than two years ... one of my reasons for resigning was the reason you provided .... if you would like to read my resignation letter ... I'll forward it to you.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I didn't sign any AS ... I had my license less than two years ... one of my reasons for resigning was the reason you provided .... if you would like to read my resignation letter ... I'll forward it to you.

Ok, so since you felt you wanted a TV, you left, or due to having to sign the AS?

Not to put you on the spot, simply curious why you are so interested in something when you have no dog in the fight anymore.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I never said such a thing ... Matt ... just because there are laws and statutes in place does not mean we have to give up our principles, or ideas, or that there is no way to re-ignite a vote on it ....

Example: Abortion is the law of the land ... does it mean I agree with it ... No. Can I blow up abortion clinics to make my point ... no. Can I take my house and secede from the Union ... no ... but I can take political action for change ....

This is what has happened with the "dead" TV resolution ... to not allow this to be re-discussed or voted on again ... simply because it's been decided already is to have disdain for the democratic process in place.

I stated nothing concerning the democratic process. I simply took what you stated and used it the opposite way you intended it to be used.

Now as far as you not saying it, I quoted your post Dan. I will quote it again, just in case you missed it.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

If a minister who has joined a fellowship that makes collective decisions through a democratic resolution process cannot accept the will of the majority ... then ... no matter where they stand ideologically .... they have no business joining such an org

Now was not the will of the majority shown concerning tv when the tv resolution was voted on several years back and defeated??

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Ok, so since you felt you wanted a TV, you left, or due to having to sign the AS?

Not to put you on the spot, simply curious why you are so interested in something when you have no dog in the fight anymore.

I'm interested in seeing non-bible based traditions be shed in THE CHURCH ... BOOM ...

For me, this was never about having a TV ... I always had one .... and could've remained in the org without repercussion ...

Evangelism was also an issue that led me to support Res. 6

And seeing that a small and fledgling minority would, like to dictate the terms for a majority who would like to re-examine this issue and others ... still bothers me. Should it? ... I don't know.

but you're right ....

I don't have a dog in the fight but I do have friends and family in the fellowship that want to see this change also ...

you can't be a part of something your whole life, more that 30 years, and act like it didn't happen ... BOOM.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Our BDFL will have to continue this reasoning.

I have to practice a song with MrsBoomm for church tonight and after church I am going to attempt again to crack into the Kubuntu Beta Upgrade I have halfway done.

Daniel, I have been in this for 29 years, and since 1993 have affirmed I will not have a TV in my home.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Are they rebroadcasting on TV or are they set up like the lawyers and Auto Dealers hawking the church?

If TV A major part of the advertising/outreach?

Did they do this when smaller?

NW opened his new church and does no outreach now simply because of the size of his congregation.

They tape their actual services, and then edit and air them at other times. They are on regular tv, and not just public broadcast stations.

Having not attended either much more than a visit, I am not sure what they do to advertise. I do not think they do much advertising tv wise though. Just have the Church broadcast

Bro Carpenter was just going on tv when I was there. I visited because I was working in Knoxville during the week, and going home on weekends. His church was full then (close to 400), so I do not believe they have seen substantial growth from it.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

I'm not UPCI anymore, but I do care about it's future! Actually, believe it or not, I've been praying for the organization.

After reading CW's article, I'm calling on some brave leaders to come forward and spearhead a petition to be signed by as many licensed preachers as possible, to pledge to not leave the UPCI over the TV vote.

Maybe this would help identify the wolves on each side of the debate that are seeking to cause division. What better way to save the fellowship than to take away the wolve's ammunition of consenses.

I personally think if there is a shake up. An issue like TV is nothing more than an issue allowing folks to disagree. The issue is not the TV debate. It is that many want to go in a different direction period. TV is an issues that will afford some the escape they have been waiting for....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I stated nothing concerning the democratic process. I simply took what you stated and used it the opposite way you intended it to be used.

Now as far as you not saying it, I quoted your post Dan. I will quote it again, just in case you missed it.




Now was not the will of the majority shown concerning tv when the tv resolution was voted on several years back and defeated??

Of course ... and was it brought back to the table through legal channels and a constitutional process ... YES .....

Did the Supreme court re-examine Plessy vs. Ferguson - segregation- separate but equal ... do institutions re-examine failed policies even whe it was voted on by the majority????

This was last voted when ???? Are we going say that the U.S. constitution is a static document ... that everything that has to stay the way it is because of guys over 200 years ago got it right???

There is a process for bring up resolutions again in the UPCI ... either the right can play by the rules it wants to champion or stifle a democratic process that's HAPPENING TODAY.