Who then can be lost?

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Would you elaborate on this a little, please?

“9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” (2 Corinthians 5:9-10)

As Christians, we will appear at the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive reward for our Christian service. Our sins are forgiven, the sentence of death has been lifted, and there is no condemnation in Christ, but there will be a day of reckoning and reward. We will receive a just reward on the basis of our works, whether good or bad.

What is the purpose of the judgment seat of Christ if every area of discipleship is a Heaven or Hell issue? On this forum I have read almost everything imaginable cited as a reason for hellfire and damnation (eg. Prayer, church attendance, soul winning, tithes and offerings, outward standards, . . .). Perfect obedience was only attained by Christ, and yet, on this forum, it seems to be the standard for admission to the everlasting kingdom.

Let’s take prayer for an example.

It would seem to be self evident that if a person never prays that they are not saved. Saved people pray, but what about the vast majority of Christians who fall short of praying the optimum number of hours per day, or who are inconsistent in their prayer lives? Will the person who fails to pray every day be lost? Will the person who falls short of the magic number of minutes per day (whatever that is) be lost? I would say, “no.” Their failure to attain perfect obedience will not cause them to lose their salvation, but will result in lost reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

The same could be said of very area of Christian discipleship. Some will produce thirtyfold, some sixtyfold, some one hundredfold, but all will give account for their service to the Master.

If I must live in fear of Hell over every detail of my Christian life, I will become frustrated and condemned, and join the throngs who have given up or who have no hope of Heaven because of the demands of legalistic religion. If I have confidence in my salvation in Jesus Christ, then I may serve without condemnation, but with great carefulness knowing that I must one day give account to God for how I have lived.

[Brad Murphy]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

If I must live in fear of Hell over every detail of my Christian life, I will become frustrated and condemned, and join the throngs who have given up because or who have no hope of Heaven because of the demands of legalistic religion. If I have confidence in my salvation in Jesus Christ, then I may serve without fear, but with great carefulness knowing that I must one day give account to God for how I have lived.

Thank you for describing my point of view so succinctly. As a perfectionist by nature, I see no way that God's grace and unconditional love can in any way coexist with the views passed down over the last 100 years in the Pentecostal culture.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

“9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” (2 Corinthians 5:9-10)

As Christians, we will appear at the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive reward for our Christian service. Our sins are forgiven, the sentence of death has been lifted, and there is no condemnation in Christ, but there will be a day of reckoning and reward. We will receive a just reward on the basis of our works, whether good or bad.

What is the purpose of the judgment seat of Christ if every area of discipleship is a Heaven or Hell issue? On this forum I have read almost everything imaginable cited as a reason for hellfire and damnation (eg. Prayer, church attendance, soul winning, tithes and offerings, outward standards, . . .). Perfect obedience was only attained by Christ, and yet, on this forum, it seems to be the standard for admission to the everlasting kingdom.

Let’s take prayer for an example.

It would seem to be self evident that if a person never prays that they are not saved. Saved people pray, but what about the vast majority of Christians who fall short of praying the optimum number of hours per day, or who are inconsistent in their prayer lives? Will the person who fails to pray every day be lost? Will the person who falls short of the magic number of minutes per day (whatever that is) be lost? I would say, “no.” Their failure to attain perfect obedience will not cause them to lose their salvation, but will result in lost reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

The same could be said of very area of Christian discipleship. Some will produce thirtyfold, some sixtyfold, some one hundredfold, but all will give account for their service to the Master.

If I must live in fear of Hell over every detail of my Christian life, I will become frustrated and condemned, and join the throngs who have given up because or who have no hope of Heaven because of the demands of legalistic religion. If I have confidence in my salvation in Jesus Christ, then I may serve without condemnation, but with great carefulness knowing that I must one day give account to God for how I have lived.

Very well said.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

Thank you for describing my point of view so succinctly. As a perfectionist by nature, I see no way that God's grace and unconditional love can in any way coexist with the views passed down over the last 100 years in the Pentecostal culture.

The grace of God does not preclude the requirement that we live soberly, righteously, and godly. God’s grace does allow us to be comfortable in our salvation while instructing us and empowering us to walk in paths of righteousness for His name’s sake. It is not inconsistent to celebrate salvation by grace through faith, and to live by the command to “be holy.”

[MissBrattified]

Anyone who refuses to repent of their sins will be lost. Additionally, one must be obedient to the Word of God, and be baptized, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. (How can a person be saved if they aren't filled with God's Spirit?)

But. I do believe we serve a just God, and since even Apostolics can't agree on every detail, I have to believe that God lives by His own code, and He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. In the meantime, it is my obligation to live and speak of what I know and understand.

In my opinion, though, ANYone who believes that Jesus is God, and is trying to follow His teachings is a "Christian." Does that mean I think they have it all together? No. But I will not deny their experience, nor will I minimize their following of Christ by saying they are not a Christian simply because they haven't been baptized yet, or haven't received the Holy Ghost. Even in Acts, men were called "disciples", though they had not been baptized or received the Spirit yet.

According to the WORD, repenting of your sins is enough to get you the label of "disciple."

Anyone who follows the teachings of Christ and believes He is God is a Christian. Saved? That's up to God. By their fruits shall you know them--and how much they love their brothers and sisters.

[StillStanding]

The whole world can be lost! All it takes is one small slip from perfection!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by StMark

Elder Epley, I remember hearing preaching years ago that before
the coming of the Lord there would be a great falling away
and that many would would become aposate. I think we
are entering that time at a Very Rapid pace now.


What these people don't realize, They will eventually believe
the same doctrine that Carlton Pearson believes. I am seeing
MANY who use to be Pentecostal now believing this mess.
Some that I grew up with. It's been a startling wake up call.

Some of these folks on AFF may not go that far but their offspring
will

Mark some folks on here are a hair's breath from what CP teaches. I honestly don't know ONE thing they believe is essential a good Baptist believes more than someof them.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

“9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” (2 Corinthians 5:9-10)

As Christians, we will appear at the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive reward for our Christian service. Our sins are forgiven, the sentence of death has been lifted, and there is no condemnation in Christ, but there will be a day of reckoning and reward. We will receive a just reward on the basis of our works, whether good or bad.

What is the purpose of the judgment seat of Christ if every area of discipleship is a Heaven or Hell issue? On this forum I have read almost everything imaginable cited as a reason for hellfire and damnation (eg. Prayer, church attendance, soul winning, tithes and offerings, outward standards, . . .). Perfect obedience was only attained by Christ, and yet, on this forum, it seems to be the standard for admission to the everlasting kingdom.

Let’s take prayer for an example.

It would seem to be self evident that if a person never prays that they are not saved. Saved people pray, but what about the vast majority of Christians who fall short of praying the optimum number of hours per day, or who are inconsistent in their prayer lives? Will the person who fails to pray every day be lost? Will the person who falls short of the magic number of minutes per day (whatever that is) be lost? I would say, “no.” Their failure to attain perfect obedience will not cause them to lose their salvation, but will result in lost reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

The same could be said of very area of Christian discipleship. Some will produce thirtyfold, some sixtyfold, some one hundredfold, but all will give account for their service to the Master.

If I must live in fear of Hell over every detail of my Christian life, I will become frustrated and condemned, and join the throngs who have given up or who have no hope of Heaven because of the demands of legalistic religion. If I have confidence in my salvation in Jesus Christ, then I may serve without condemnation, but with great carefulness knowing that I must one day give account to God for how I have lived.

Elder without trying to be offensive you sound like a Southern Baptist.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Elder without trying to be offensive you sound like a Southern Baptist.

He sounds like a Christian and you sound like a Pharisee that puts everyone else in hell but yourself…without being offensive.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

He sounds like a Christian and you sound like a Pharisee that puts everyone else in hell but yourself…without being offensive.

Maple Leaf is a good guy we have fussed for years now, however what he stated is Baptist theology.