Michael or Gabriel could have easily been the one to rebel. The real question is, did anything in Lucifer's creative makeup lead him to rebel? Such as if God made him less beautiful or the messenger angel instead of the worship angel. Lucifer must have been preordained to fall. If preordained to fall, will God feel some responsibility and redeem Lucifer in the future?
You think too much!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
You are exactly right, Timmy. They made choices illegally. That might explain why, so far, God has not revealed any plan of salvation for fallen angels.
In the deepest abyss of hell, there is a place called "Tartaroo", where God has cast those angels, which sinned. (II Peter 2:4) Those that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. (Jude :6). They being held captive there, by everlasting chains under darkness, until judgment.
Kinda sounds like Puff, the magic dragon, might be down there.
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The Gospel of Jesus Christ: Jesus bore away my sins, my sickness, and my poverty. That covers it all. Everything else is just legalism.
How could he not know? Are you serious? Is it possible for God (who is omniscient, omipresent, and omnipotent) to lie? If not, then how was he able to create a being that could?
At the time God created the angel who was "Lucifer", there were no lies. Then the devil went bad, and invented lies.
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The Gospel of Jesus Christ: Jesus bore away my sins, my sickness, and my poverty. That covers it all. Everything else is just legalism.
You are exactly right, Timmy. They made choices illegally. That might explain why, so far, God has not revealed any plan of salvation for fallen angels.
In the deepest abyss of hell, there is a place called "Tartaroo", where God has cast those angels, which sinned. (II Peter 2:4) Those that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. (Jude :6). They being held captive there, by everlasting chains under darkness, until judgment.
Kinda sounds like Puff, the magic dragon, might be down there.
And since it was legal for man to choose evil, God gave him a plan of salvation.
Mmmmmkay.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And since it was legal for man to choose evil, God gave him a plan of salvation.
Mmmmmkay.
What do you think about the subject?
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The Gospel of Jesus Christ: Jesus bore away my sins, my sickness, and my poverty. That covers it all. Everything else is just legalism.
To those who believe Adam and Eve were created perfect and that it was ONLY because of the serpent that they fell:
"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Is God all-knowing? Did he create Lucifer? The answer to both questions is yes. God created Lucifer (andlater, men) knowing full well they would eventually rebel. Please note that He did not create them to rebel. He knew they would, and created. Them in spite of that knowledge.Study the Lamb Slain from the FOundation of the World. What does that statement mean?
I'm just saying that if it is impossible for God to lie (as in their is actually something He cannot do), then is it possible that God had no idea Satan was going to fall? Even though God is Omnipotent, Omiscient, and Omnipresent; this does not mean that He is capable of going against His own character. Did God go against His own character when He created Satan? I think not, because although God encompasses all three of the aformentioned characteristics, He is holy and pure without corruption, and if Satan came from that Creator then lies would most certainly have come from God. No argument from me, just something to think and ponder on. ;-)
But you missed the question (being partially brain dead, so no problem). Or didn't have time to finish (hearing the call for rellenos, so no problem). Just don't forget to come back.
How will Heaven escape this universe's unavoidable fate: "in order for 'good' to exist at all, evil must exist as a consequence"? Or will there actually be no "good" there?
I confess that this is a problematic situation for me - at least problematic for me to define in the exactness that you appear to be wanting. My faith is that there is simply a different way of seeing things in that "New Heavens and New Earth..."
To explain the presence of evil in this world I relied upon the metaphors of light and shadow. That seems to work in the here and now. In the time to come? I dunno how to explain it. In the Bible we are told that satan and his angels would suffer "forever..." Presumably the "unsaved" have a similar fate.
And "suffering" or "imprisonment" for eternity still allows for the existence of evil. It's not like "evil" went out of existence just because it is "bound with a chain."
But this still presents something of a problem for me. Eternal torment may be a reasonable fate for my next door neighbor to suffer due to all the racket he makes in this life - but sitting on a cloud and watching him suffer this throughout eternity isn't my idea of paradise. This is one very real problem for me in the lieteral interpretations of judgment - I'm not really a big fan of watching the "smoke of their torment" ascend before heaven "forever." Forget the wicked for a moment, how about giving the righteous a break here?
So, my provisional conclusion is that there is some sort of "eternality" of wickedness and evil - but I trust that it is to be confined to some realm consistent within God's character of justice, mercy and goodness and the overall theme of "paradise."
"Foreknowledge" is the key to this riddle. God foreknows what choices will be made by His creation. This does not prevent any creature from exercising his free will. We can know this, because God already had a plan of redemption, for mankind, ready before the foundation of the world.
God does not control the choices, but He knows beforehand what choices they will make. If God was controlling the choices, why didn't He run down to Eden real fast and slap that fruit out of Eve's hand?
Angels obviously have the power of choice, but not the legal right of choice. The devil made choices that he had no authority to make, therefore punishment is all he should expect to recieve. There is no plan for the redemption of fallen angels.
The robber, who takes a gun and robs a bank, has the power, but not the authority to do that. When the authorities catch him, they will take away his power, and punishment is all he should expect to recieve. The judge is not going to say, "Go in peace and sin no more".
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The Gospel of Jesus Christ: Jesus bore away my sins, my sickness, and my poverty. That covers it all. Everything else is just legalism.
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