Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minister

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

So do you partake in elitist UPC bashing propaganda every day?

It sickens me how one sided people's views are. I have been to one church that rudely judgmental and UPC, it will remain unnamed.

No not every day, sometimes I have a tendency to be busy doing other stuff..

I am kind of surprised an intelligent person like you would call this elitist UPC bashing propaganda. I did not prompt this individual to say what he did, I did not tell him my position, he said it, I reported it as a topic of discussion.

I thought it was pretty ironic however in context because here the UPC has said they have a burden for the city, yet they expect everyone IN that city to drive up to an hour and a half to get there. This is also very evident in not partnering with other churches with folks of like precious faith. IF the UPC in my city were to fellowship with the men, great they look fine and acceptable, the women? Forget it, we are hung up on the appearance of your women, we can't reach the city with the gospel together.

To me it is indicative of the UPCmovement and approach to isolate from their fellowship EVERYONE who does not follow the 10 steps exactly to their expectations. THe UCs are great at this because if they don't agree, then hey, start a whole new organization and lets REALLY reach this city.

It is a big sham.

[clgustaveson]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

No not every day, sometimes I have a tendency to be busy doing other stuff..

I am kind of surprised an intelligent person like you would call this elitist UPC bashing propaganda. I did not prompt this individual to say what he did, I did not tell him my position, he said it, I reported it as a topic of discussion.

I thought it was pretty ironic however in context because here the UPC has said they have a burden for the city, yet they expect everyone IN that city to drive up to an hour and a half to get there. This is also very evident in not partnering with other churches with folks of like precious faith. IF the UPC in my city were to fellowship with the men, great they look fine and acceptable, the women? Forget it, we are hung up on the appearance of your women, we can't reach the city with the gospel together.

To me it is indicative of the UPCmovement and approach to isolate from their fellowship EVERYONE who does not follow the 10 steps exactly to their expectations. THe UCs are great at this because if they don't agree, then hey, start a whole new organization and lets REALLY reach this city.

It is a big sham.

I was joking BTW but you promoted him with the "they would think your women aren't saved" primer. I would have said the same thing as him if I were in his position. Really you were the one being judgmental, he was being honest if that was the sentiment.

Just come to terms, you hate the UPC. The only reason you deny it is because you want to go to heaven clear case of cognitive dissonance.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I was joking BTW but you promoted him with the "they would think your women aren't saved" primer. I would have said the same thing as him if I were in his position. Really you were the one being judgmental, he was being honest if that was the sentiment.

Just come to terms, you hate the UPC. The only reason you deny it is because you want to go to heaven clear case of cognitive dissonance.

I don't hate anything or anyone. You need to come to terms that just because someone disagrees, they hate, bash, propagandize, etc.

I told that man exactly what I have been taught, and what folks have said verbatim around here. It may have been a primer, but I wasn't misrepresenting the UPC. Had I said something like, "It seems to me that the UPC doesn't like black people..." THAT is enciting a riot based on an assumption. I did not say what I did to get an emotional reaction.


There is no cognitive dissonance. I do not NEED to have faith in my own beliefs AND the UPC doctrine in order to be saved. Your comment is exactly why I believe in many many cases Apostolics don't have a clear or true understanding of grace.

[CC1]

Carp, I think you left the word "don't" our of your first sentance in your last post (after "they" and before "hate")

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Bobbys

I'm writing to respond to other comments I have just seen. One mentioned Joseph and Daniel must be going to hell then. Joseph and Daniel were not in the church, and was NOT under the New Testament law. Its two different dispensations, and two different laws. Somethings from the old testament continued through to the new testament, but the new testament CLEARLY CONDEMNS JEWLERY 1Timothy 2:9-10 and 1Peter 3:3-4, so why be a hypocrite about it and try to condone wearing jewlery? Now for the next question. A neck tie is NOT jewlery, its CLOTHING. Why be a hypocrite? You know the difference. Lets see you go to a jewlery store and say can I have a neck tie of cloth, and see if they don't look at you like your crazy. Just do what the bible say and what I say, and pull OFF the jewlery.

I went to those verses and I did not see condemnation of anything. I did see something about gold, silver and expensive clothing.

From your post you don't seem to know what a hypocrite is.

Jewelry
1.articles of gold, silver, precious stones, etc., for personal adornment. 2.any ornaments for personal adornment, as necklaces or cuff links, including those of base metals, glass, plastic, or the like.

BTW I love the last line...just do what the bible says...and what I say...LOL

Watches are jewelry given the above def. as well as any ornament for personal adornment.

That covers most ladies in Pentecost with their broaches and hair pins and their fancy shoes.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I don't hate anything or anyone. You need to come to terms that just because someone disagrees, they don't hate, bash, propagandize, etc.

I told that man exactly what I have been taught, and what folks have said verbatim around here. It may have been a primer, but I wasn't misrepresenting the UPC. Had I said something like, "It seems to me that the UPC doesn't like black people..." THAT is enciting a riot based on an assumption. I did not say what I did to get an emotional reaction.


There is no cognitive dissonance. I do not NEED to have faith in my own beliefs AND the UPC doctrine in order to be saved. Your comment is exactly why I believe in many many cases Apostolics don't have a clear or true understanding of grace.

Thanks CC. How am I doing here?

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I don't hate anything or anyone. You need to come to terms that just because someone disagrees, they hate, bash, propagandize, etc.

I told that man exactly what I have been taught, and what folks have said verbatim around here. It may have been a primer, but I wasn't misrepresenting the UPC. Had I said something like, "It seems to me that the UPC doesn't like black people..." THAT is enciting a riot based on an assumption. I did not say what I did to get an emotional reaction.


There is no cognitive dissonance. I do not NEED to have faith in my own beliefs AND the UPC doctrine in order to be saved. Your comment is exactly why I believe in many many cases Apostolics don't have a clear or true understanding of grace.

Ok, so, what is the true or clear understanding of grace?

[Jekyll]

and, how was the service this morn?

Freeatlast try to read your bible a little more. You said apparel is condemned, what a fool. You are ALLOWED to wear MODEST apparel, and as long as the neck tie is a solid black and so forth, its modest, and condoned by the bible. And yes Steve Epley I know of Bishop S C Johnson. Johnson was the ONE who had the WHOLE TRUTH. Johnson's doctrine still stands, and everything other than that is FALSE.

praxeas, if you don't understand what I said I think you need to go back to the atleast the fourth grade. The bible is PLAIN in 1Timothy 2:9-10 and 1Peter 3:3-4. A child can understand that. The only ones who can't understand that, are the people that are full of the devil. ha ha ha. Now pull OFF the JEWLERY and save yourself, or wear it and go to hell, its your choice. Only a first class hypocrite would fight what the bible says in those scriptures.