Trinitarian

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Its amazing to me how some people will never miss an opportunity to make excuses for Trinitarians and the trinity doctrine, while being quick very quick to be critical of Apostolics and OP doctrine.

I must say I find it a bit disturbing, to say the least.

I don't know that I would "make excuses" for Trinitarian doctrine, but it does disturb me that some refuse to recognize Jesus where is evident and even consult with Jewish rabbis (who reject Christ) to disparage Trinitarian brethren.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Its amazing to me how some people will never miss an opportunity to make excuses for Trinitarians and the trinity doctrine, while being quick very quick to be critical of Apostolics and OP doctrine.

I must say I find it a bit disturbing, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

How is pointing out that the writers of the NT chose to use pagan philosophers in there teaching and preaching a defense for the Trinity? Why is that so disturbing for you?

Baron, with all due respect, your question so totally misses the point of what I said, that I dont even feel like bothering to get into it.

Lets just move along. I think there are some here who have been paying attention to some things here, and can see the truth in the statement I made. Some will choose not to see it, some will simply disagree. But I dont feel like getting into further detail on that. I've observed enough posts on this forum to notice certain very clear tendencies.

Peace.

[SDG]

I'm starting to look at the writings of Polycarp and Ignatius ... to see what they thought was important/essential doctrine a generation after the 1st century Apostolic church ... I'm trying to find if they stressed or emphasized the PAJC Water and Spirit doctrine and the requisite for understanding the makeup of God that prevails in our more conservative circles ...

Yet to find evidence of that .... either these men were not Apostolics as we see them today ... or what we see today is ... (you fill in the blanks)

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

How is pointing out that the writers of the NT chose to use pagan philosophers in there teaching and preaching a defense for the Trinity? Why is that so disturbing for you?

Because the NT use of pagan philosophy was part of polemic not theologic discourse.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Daniel, can you show me where I have judged anyone's soul? Discussing doctrinal origins of teachings and if they are truly validated by Scripture is one thing. Judging the soul should be left to God.

I don't think I've attached such a value on you in this thread ... my remarks were generic to a view that most conservative W&S adherents espouse ...

I also believe there is an inherent contradiction in your view of leaving the judging up to God when most traditional OP's believe that one is not save w/o a properly administered and articulated water baptism.

Can't have it both ways.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Baron, with all due respect, your question so totally misses the point of what I said, that I dont even feel like bothering to get into it.

Lets just move along. I think there are some here who have been paying attention to some things here, and can see the truth in the statement I made. Some will choose not to see it, some will simply disagree. But I dont feel like getting into further detail on that. I've observed enough posts on this forum to notice certain very clear tendencies.

Peace.

What respect is it I am due? Oh, that's right none because apparently I have defended the Trinitarian doctrine. My bad.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

What respect is it I am due? Oh, that's right none because apparently I have defended the Trinitarian doctrine. My bad.

That was so unnecessary.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Because the NT use of pagan philosophy was part of polemic not theologic discourse.

James quotes Plato directly, embraces the truth of it, and passes it on to us as the Word of God. Is that the only truth in pagan philosophy? Or might you find more truth there? The comparison of Trinitarianism to pagan philosophy I believe is weak. I think just like Paul and James people reading Scriptures saw a reasonable link between the two. To reject the doctrine of the Trinity as completely unbelievable and with no support from Scripture is to ignore entire portions of Scripture. For instance when I was a younger man I did Bible quizzing and we did the book of John, Oh, wait I forgot to mention we SKIPPED chapter 5-7. Why do you think that was?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

That was so unnecessary.

Probably, but it made me laugh. The phrase "with all due respect" just cracks me up because it is usually followed by an insult. And since I have no position there really is no "due respect." So relax.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I think to be a restorationist, you have to believe that the gates of hell prevailed for 1800+ years. That seems like a frail teaching to me that it is so easily lost.

I disagree. In ever war and on every battlefield the battle line can change. Often the enemy gains ground and friendly forces have to dig in and fight until they can turn the tide and advance. The idea that the gospel is some “magic” truth that would never face significant opposition is a flight of fancy. We see Apostasy seeping into the seven churches of Revelation. We see a prime example in ancient Israel. God’s people have a history of mountain tops where revelation and prophetic power flowed and Israel had deep valleys of apostasy and debauchery…however, she was always God’s Israel and God always sent messengers to revive her. Think of those stories about how the Law was brought out and read to the people and how they wept because they realized they had drifted from it. Israel’s entire history is one of backsliding and restoration. Even as individuals, there are times in our lives when sin and Hell may APPEAR to have dominion. But as long as we have breath the war isn’t over. One cannot say that the enemy has prevailed until the war is over. For 1800 years the enemy was on the advance. The truth of God was hidden from the masses and men often dug in and studied God’s word secretly be candle light trying to find those precious truths that the traditional church had neglected and forgotten. But we cannot say that Hell prevailed…for God sent Reformation and Revival to his Church and today the Truth is on the move in a mighty way.

Get warfare minded. Understand the battlefield. Realize there are battles won and battles lost…but we are promised the war. The gates of Hell shall not prevail!