Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Please explain how the UPC service is feminized?

Also ... I think the whole issue of holiness standards is a male pride issue at heart ... it's veiled chauvinism/sexism and is very much a tactic used to subjugate women in various ways.

Do you really feel that way, DA? Do you feel that your mother was the victim of chauvinism/sexism when she adhered to "holiness standards"?

BTW, your comments have not been edifying at all lately.

[Rhoni]

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Griffin
Perhaps this is what MOW meant, an inbreeding of spiritual DNA leading to retarded growth.

Without "new blood" there is no fresh perspective.

The challenge is perhaps in having an infusion of new blood without losing sight of the original vision of the house.

And to that unfortunately I am not sure there is a pat one-size-fits-all answer.

It is a constant balancing act to infuse new without betraying what should be immutable.

Excellent interpretation!

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Mine isn't. He was raised Church of God and they had the same standards as the UPC, he tells me.

Was he Church of God Cleveland, TN (headquarters)?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Joie

This is an outrageous thread. Incest, did you say??? Unlawful incest? Incest is not promoting from within... it is far worse.
The UPC may be may be many things but intentional incest is Not one of them. Seems to me in years past the kids were meeting friends at camp that many end up married who had nothing to do w/ their own home church.

No, I did not grow up UPC and do not attend a UPC church

....... I must say the kindest, sweetest, best folks I have ever met are in or came out of the UPC.

Joie, MOW can set the record straight, but I think there was a play on words involved - not physical sexual incest.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Do you really feel that way, DA? Did you feel that your mother was the victim of chauvinism/sexism when she adhered to "holiness standards"?

BTW, your comments have not been edifying at all lately.

The idea of systemic sexism is pervasive even in our society ... CBO if your eyes are open ... We are all victims.

My mother left the Apostolic Assembly 2 years after her conversion because it was even more blatantly/overtly sexist.

The roots of the ultracon holiness movement is rooted in the deep South ... and one would be remissed if one cannot see that often women are subjugated in many of these churches to great extents ... and one way to manipulate and keep women in their place is to make them the trophies of dress holiness.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The idea of systemic sexism is pervasive even in our society ... CBO if your eyes are open ... We are all victims.

My mother left the Apostolic Assembly 2 years after her conversion because it was even more blatantly/overtly sexist.

The roots of the ultracon holiness movement is rooted in the deep South ... and one would be remissed if one cannot see that often women are subjugated in many of these churches to great extents ... and one way to manipulate and keep women in their place is to make them the trophies of dress holiness.

Wow..you've said a mouthfull there Bro.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Please explain how the UPC service is feminized?

A.

Dan I will loan you my copy of "Why Men Hate Going to Church" someone else mentioned it here.

It's the premise of why there are more men than women in western churches. Ironically enough though the ratio of men to women is actually closer in pentecostal churches than "mainstream" though.


But even among ethics lines there are differences. Hispanics have some of the closest ratios and African Americans some of the greatest disparities.

I don't agree with all of the author's conclusions but it makes an interesting read.

Will see about bringing it next Sunday if you think you would be interested.

[SDG]

Just recently someone commented to me that at a UPCI preachers forum ... most of the preachers there see no problem w/ men wearing shorts .... a sign that things are changing ...

but ask those same men if it's okay for women to wear shorts ... or about length of skirts and you will get a whole different perspective ...

Holiness has been preached by many of these men as women being the seductress who must be covered ...

Most holiness dress issues are centered around women while men get a "free" pass looking like the rest of the general population

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The idea of systemic sexism is pervasive even in our society ... CBO if your eyes are open ... We are all victims.

My mother left the Apostolic Assembly 2 years after her conversion because it was even more blatantly/overtly sexist.

The roots of the ultracon holiness movement is rooted in the deep South ... and one would be remissed if one cannot see that often women are subjugated in many of these churches to great extents ... and one way to manipulate and keep women in their place is to make them the trophies of dress holiness.

I see how this fits into your current understanding, but as I said, it does not seem to make sense in my own real-life connections. Most conservative women I know are married to husbands that are at least a bit more liberal.

The men that I know who are manipulating and subjugating are mostly NON-Christian.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Just recently someone commented to me that at a UPCI preachers forum ... most of the preachers there see no problem w/ men wearing shorts .... a sign that things are changing ...

but ask those same men if it's okay for women to wear shorts ... or about length of skirts and you will get a whole different perspective ...

Holiness has been preached by many of these men as women being the seductress who must be covered ...

Most holiness dress issues are centered around women while men get a "free" pass looking like the rest of the general population

AMEN! This is so true.