Oneness/acts 2:38 w/o standards churches - Page 5

Pressing-On · #41 03-25-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Here come the "what ifs"

We have even crossed the generation gap.

The founding pastor (starting in 1968) has retired to the bishop position and his son is now pastor. The bishop and the older generation in the church have embraced the new thinking....I even heard one of the elders say that they have shut the doors to outsiders for so long they hoped they could be around long enough to see the turn around and new people come to the Lord.....

Great things are happening my friend......pause before you hit the UPC too hard. Another year and I will be saying "told you so"

But I think there are some that will always rail against UPC no matter how much they change....just the nature of some I guess...

Good post, Scotty!!!

scotty · #42 03-25-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Yes, times are changing. The next great battle in the UPC will probably be over doctrine, the new birth, and justification by faith.

No battles, UC's have a place now.....its called the WPF

deltaguitar · #43 03-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Here come the "what ifs"

We have even crossed the generation gap.

The founding pastor (starting in 1968) has retired to the bishop position and his son is now pastor. The bishop and the older generation in the church have embraced the new thinking....I even heard one of the elders say that they have shut the doors to outsiders for so long they hoped they could be around long enough to see the turn around and new people come to the Lord.....

Great things are happening my friend......pause before you hit the UPC too hard. Another year and I will be saying "told you so"

But I think there are some that will always rail against UPC no matter how much they change....just the nature of some I guess...

Well it looks like you have great unity in your church. I think it will be pastor's like yours that will lead the UPC into the next generation. If your church loves people and just want to see people saved then your church will grow and the Holy Spirit will guide them into a life of Godliness.

So do you consider you church a church that will be without standards in the next 15 years or so. See our pastor had the same ideas that your pastor did that just get folks saved and let God change them. Well, once the new converts started steaming in and not changing fast enough then the problems started. The hard core members knew that the church would look different.

scotty · #44 03-25-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

If your church loves people and just want to see people saved then your church will grow and the Holy Spirit will guide them into a life of Godliness.

So do you consider you church a church that will be without standards in the next 15 years or so. .

I doubt it, you see, all churches have standards..Mormons, Baptist, AoG, Jehoviah's, Amish......and ours are not the strictest of the group..

There is nothing wrong with "standards", the wrong is making "standards" standard.

I think Bro. Mitchell in my sig line says it all

Besides, if people come to God and the Holy Ghost convicts them to wear a dress and no cut hair am I supposed to go tell them they are wrong?

Of course, not ....not any more than I would go tell one with no conviction of facial hair that he is wrong....

Really , allot of you make this more complicated than it is...

Kings Kid · #45 03-25-2008, 01:29 PM

100 percent oneness .

deltaguitar · #46 03-25-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Besides, if people come to God and the Holy Ghost convicts them to wear a dress and no cut hair am I supposed to go tell them they are wrong?

Of course, not ....not any more than I would go tell one with no conviction of facial hair that he is wrong....

Really , allot of you make this more complicated than it is...

I have no problem with standards if people want to have them. We all have to have some kind of standards. I respect those that do have standards until they start trying to make certain things biblical.

I would have never guessed that folks would have split our church over standards. I considered us to be a very liberal/openminded church for Mississippi but it took almost no time for a young girl wearing makup and cut hair to sing on the platform and it was all over for our pastor.

scotty · #47 03-25-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I have no problem with standards if people want to have them. We all have to have some kind of standards. I respect those that do have standards until they start trying to make certain things biblical.

Then me and you will never have a problem..

I would have never guessed that folks would have split our church over standards. I considered us to be a very liberal/openminded church for Mississippi but it took almost no time for a young girl wearing makup and cut hair to sing on the platform and it was all over for our pastor.

If it is a UPC church then why the surprise....My church is not "liberal" I wouldn't expect any UPC to become just "liberal"....moderate definitly but not "liberal"....I am not saying UPC needs to go charismatic (nothing wrong with charismatic) but UPC is UPC and charasmatic is charismatic...

RandyWayne · #48 03-25-2008, 01:52 PM

I always wondered how many would be "convicted" to either cut, or let grow, their hair. Or start wearing a dress, or get rid of the ol TV...... If a majority around them weren't already doing it.

The vast majority of "conviction" is nothing more than peer pressure. Whether it be in-your-face or subtle, people want to fit in and LOOK like the rest of their group. Ever see groups of teenage boys where every one is wearing a baseball cap? (And not because they play on a team.) If any new boy joined their group, how long do you think it would be before he started wearing one also?

bishoph · #49 03-25-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Yes, times are changing. The next great battle in the UPC will probably be over doctrine, the new birth, and justification by faith.

I believe you are absolutely correct! I disagree with Scotty on this one. The WPF is not "the" place for everyone who teaches/preaches standards and W/S new birth, as well as other "Apostolic" distinctives. The UPCI and many other oneness organizations still have a majority of mod/con's who are not willing to change the message/practice they hold dear. Many are willing to try new methods, but vehemently oppose changing content.

Having said that; I believe that the next great controversy, (which will probably fracture the UPCI many times more than the current situation) will be over doctrine. Specifically, soteriology (salvation) which was minimized at the merger. This is a line of eternal consequence. If one holds the position that the new birth is accomplished only by repentance and W/S baptism, all others are at best saved from eternal death but not in the bride, and at worst eternally ************ed. This will eventually IMO bring about a split.

Incidentally, I personally think that the PAJC men at the time of the merger may have had serious reservations as to the teaching of the PCI men and possibly even their salvational status. This would explain the much discussed statement "We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we are all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body" IMO the bolded portion shows that some of the framers did not think all were in the faith.

scotty · #50 03-25-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I always wondered how many would be "convicted" to either cut, or let grow, their hair. Or start wearing a dress, or get rid of the ol TV...... If a majority around them weren't already doing it.

The vast majority of "conviction" is nothing more than peer pressure. Whether it be in-your-face or subtle, people want to fit in and LOOK like the rest of their group. Ever see groups of teenage boys where every one is wearing a baseball cap? (And not because they play on a team.) If any new boy joined their group, how long do you think it would be before he started wearing one also?

You sound like my neighbor,

she said there is no Holy Ghost or salvation , and we wern't really feeling anything in church...."its all just monkey see, monkey doo"

She is self proclaimed athiest.

what if it is the reverse Bro. Randy?!?!

what if you are the way you are because the rest of the world is that way, what if you have been drawn into the "ways of the world"???

this is why I don't question the beliefs of others, it can turn on you and just as you can't really prove that people change because others in the church are that way , I can't prove you are a worldly sinner on his way to hell because others who dress the way you do are of the world.