Disfellowshipping because of Sin: When, if ever?

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Hypothetical scenario:

A pastor tells his congregation, one Sunday morning, that his son has impregnated a young lady of the church, who is not his fiance; and will be removed from all ministries w/ in the Church and will be disfellowshipped from the congregation citing scriptures like 1 Cor. 5 as precedent for doing so. His board has asked that he reconsider his position on the matter allowing for a time of discipline and perhaps allow for future restoration .... feeling that this stance is too harsh.


1 Corinthians 5 reads:

9 I wrote to you in my letter(N) not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10(O) not at all meaning(P) the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters,(Q) since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone(R) who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging(S) outsiders?(T) Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges[b] those outside.(U) "Purge the evil person from among you."

---------------------------------------------

When do we purge or expel a member from our local congregation .... or the Body? When is enough, enough?

Does the nature of the offense determine this decision to disfellowship? For example, is there a difference between heterosexual fornication and homosexuality?

Is there a difference between stealing church funds and pedophilia?

Your opinions on how this hypothetical pastor has handled this situation?

What say ye?

That is the reason that there are more secret Abortions going on in church circles.

Folks are taught that God will forgive them of any sin.

So they would rather do that then suffer the ignorance of man.

It should not be celebrated.

But folks should be helped with respect and understanding through these situations.

I would never leave a friend if have gone from the church that is when they need me to be a friend more than ever...

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Elder Blume and others, How well are we as an Apostolic Church dealing w/ those that are struggling w/ various hangups? What can we do better?

Were sin abounds, grace even more abounds......

Some things that people have to deal with is overwhelming and sad.

It will test even the most faithful.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Were sin abounds, grace even more abounds......

That passage preempts Romans 6, which I mentioned earlier. Those truths TAKE MUCH TIME and teaching for folks to understand. This indicates there is no quick-fix for everything. TIME must be utilized to lead folks into victory over sins in the flesh with these passages.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

There is a pervasive Pentecosta doctrine called PRAYING THROUGH ... some believe that the person needs to have a good praying through ... with a demostrative show at the altar and BAM! ... instant fix!!!!

I'm not saying God can't do thing instantaneously ... my dad was instantly delivered from heroin addiction when he came to Christ ... but we'd have to admit ... many don't have this experience.

You and I have had this discussion before in relevance to outward worship. God can and will (in many cases) cause an instantaneous change in a person. It will always be preceded by a repentant heart. It does not, however, turn off the pressures or temptations of life and the world. There in lies the struggle. It is when one never comes to repentance and never fights the fight. They become an enabler of sin rather than picking up the Sword against it. Thats when a pastor has to ask themselves....is more damage being done to church body by this sin's existence than the good I can do by attempting to continue to bring this one to repentance?

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Elder Blume and others, How well are we as an Apostolic Church dealing w/ those that are struggling w/ various hangups? What can we do better?

Maybe if we stopped preaching so much about the "good" sowing.

Give and it shall be given back 100 fold.

Preachers are so stuck on prosperity.

They have forgotten to preach on you sow what you reap..

The wages of sin are death.

Today most feel Sin-Repent, Sin-Repent, Sin-Repent....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That passage preempts Romans 6, which I mentioned earlier. Those truths TAKE MUCH TIME and teaching for folks to understand. This indicates there is no quick-fix for everything. TIME must be utilized to lead folks into victory over sins in the flesh with these passages.

But some feel that saying to someone ... "you're just not living victoriously" and "you need to pray more" are trite answers to complicated and layered situations.

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

So if one is persistent in said sin and appears non-recalcitrant we cut the cord? When? How many strikes? Does the nature of the offense determine our "patience" in the matter?

Would a person struggling w/ pornagraphy get a longer leash than the person who is struggling w/ homosexuality?

well i view both as wrong equitably, the severity of the circumstance and the attitude of the offender would definitely determine, time and consequence, dt

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Hypothetical scenario:

A pastor tells his congregation, one Sunday morning, that his son has impregnated a young lady of the church, who is not his fiance; and will be removed from all ministries w/ in the Church and will be disfellowshipped from the congregation citing scriptures like 1 Cor. 5 as precedent for doing so. His board has asked that he reconsider his position on the matter allowing for a time of discipline and perhaps allow for future restoration .... feeling that this stance is too harsh.


When do we purge or expel a member from our local congregation .... or the Body? When is enough, enough?

Does the nature of the offense determine this decision to disfellowship? For example, is there a difference between heterosexual fornication and homosexuality?

Is there a difference between stealing church funds and pedophilia?

Your opinions on how this hypothetical pastor has handled this situation?

What say ye?

A young man, who has "relations" with a woman that is not his wife, has no place in a leadership position, whether it be a girl friend, fiance, or rank stranger. He should be removed from his "position" as a leader in the church. That goes for any sin, listed and not listed, when the sin has a direct connection to others. Because "positions" aren't about having a fancy name plate on the door. Those in ministerial positions serve by example. Sin of the nature you describe brings a serious reproach on the church and, ultimately, on the Gospel it stands for. The integrity of the church, and that of everyone from the pastor to the janitor is at stake.

I'm all for restoration. But allowing one to remain in a leadership position does noting to restore the fallen. Actually, the opposit of true. Sweeping the incident under the rug condones the act, and leads the fallen further from the grace of God's forgiveness. However, "disfellowshipping the fallen" isn't necessarily the correct course of action, unless the sin is of a repetitive nature. Jesus gave the example of how many times we should seek to restore the fallen. If they reject our counsel, then, we may need to take the drastic step to "disfellowship".

I think of Pauls writing:

2Cr 2:5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.

2Cr 2:6 Sufficient to such a man [is] this punishment, which [was inflicted] of many.

2Cr 2:7 So that contrariwise ye [ought] rather to forgive [him], and comfort [him], lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

2Cr 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm [your] love toward him.

I believe the fallen should be forgiven. They should be restored. And that goes for whatever the sin is. Its called accountability. But, the restoration process should be done outside the leadership position. Don't slam the door of fellowship in his face. But, at the same time, make it very clear sin in the camp will not be winked at. And, whether we like it or not, the leaders, who have authority and influence in the church, are held, and rightly so, to a higher standard than the janitor of the church.

[DividedThigh]

unfortunately counsel reaches only some people there are times when some people need a good kick in the butt to get them on the right track , sometimes life does that and sometimes we have too, lol,dt

[SDG]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

unfortunately counsel reaches only some people there are times when some people need a good kick in the butt to get them on the right track , sometimes life does that and sometimes we have too, lol,dt

Classic "Tough Love" approach???